Dingwall -- (ignorant) What's The Big Deal?

[Root 5]

Extremely unlikely Dingwall is paying him (they're not Fender-wealthy, Duran Duran is not Taylor Swift-scale huge)

Duran Duran were one of the biggest bands in the world, all through the 1980s and into the early 90s

 

[Dirk Diggler]

The 2 major benefits I see are:

Equal tension across all strings
Equal volume across all strings

As far as prices go, that's good old economics, supply vs. demand.
If what they are charging is too much for you, it's time to look elsewhere.
Plenty of builders will do multiscale these days.

Personally I find multiscale to be a huge technological step forward.

 

[Doublebasstim]

I had a NG 2 5 string. I liked the sound but I could never get used different string tension on each string.

 

[logdrum]

Novax Guitars was the OG and he patented it and called it Fan-Fret system. Since mif 80's I believe. When his patent expired, Dingwall and then Ibanez made it common and affordable. (I banez not Dingwall) I do like the old Novax ratio and angle and where the frets straight and then angle back. I played a really good Novax Jazz bass but Novax fan frets are rare for a reason. I have 2 Hybrid Guitar + Bass instruments.

 

[logdrum]

The 2 major benefits I see are:

Equal tension across all strings
Equal volume across all strings

I had a NG 2 5 string. I liked the sound but I could never get used different string tension on each string.

Okay --- that's 2 owners saying 2 different things

 

[cfraz]

I see these basses more and more often. Are they just the most recent hot commodity that everyone feels they must have?

The MSRP for made in China seems rather high. These are boutique prices.

This week I saw Adam Neely playing an Afterburner instead of his NG, and he already has a completely bespoke Keisel fan fretted 5.

So what is it about the Dingwall that's making them so valuable? I've watched plenty of reviews and it sounds like a bass. Nothing special to my ears.

Unfortunately there isn't a dealer near me so I can't play one for myself without ordering and returning, so I'm hoping perhaps someone can fill in the blanks with some facts, not just fan hype. Thanks!

I became intrigued by Dingwall after reading some reviews. I ordered an Afterburner 1 5-string sight unseen and it's been my go bass since it arrived. This was over 20 years ago, when the cost was more comparable to other makes - I paid about 1/3 of what an NG costs today. I played a Pedulla Rapture 5 for the better part of a decade before I got the Dingwall. The Pedulla is no slouch, in my view, but to me the Dingwall was just on a higher level on all metrics.

Why? I don't know if I can articulate the reasons, but I'll give it a shot.

Ergonomics. It just fits. From the body shape and contouring, the balance, the location of the tuners, pickups and controls, and the fanned fret arrangement, everything just falls where my fingers naturally go. It's comfortable for me to play sitting or standing. I really like the banjo-sized frets a lot. It's like Mr. Dingwall had a "build-test-dummy" when he designed the bass, and that dummy was me.

Responsiveness. Wow - what a sloppy player I was! With the Dingwall, every little thing in my technique - the good, the bad and the ugly - became obvious. Working to clean up my playing, I found the flip side of slop to be the ability (still working on it) to impart nuance and employ dynamics in my bass lines that wouldn't have come through on the Pedulla.

Sonic character and versatility. More than a few people have noted Dingwalls are not for them, because they only do the buzzy/fuzzy stuff or they sound too thin or not bassy enough. Have they ever heard what Lee Sklar does with his Z, or what Matt McCormack does with flats on his SP-1? My AB-1 is a naturally bright bass, but the top end is easily rolled back as far as I need with the tone control and pickup selector. Conversely, it's hard to add pleasant sounding highs when they aren't in a bass's native output at all. I normally play with the tone control at about 30% with my usual set of piano, drums and acoustic guitar. When playing with a fuller lineup including multiple electric guitars, less tone rolloff gives the needed cutting power. The bass sits perfectly in the mix, to my ears anyway. I love what Nolly Getgood does and listen to that genre at times, but if Dingwall had the metal reputation it does now, I probably wouldn't have even looked at them 20 years ago when I bought mine.

Resonance. This is maybe the least concrete reason in one sense, but the one that always seems to put a smile on my face when I pick up my Dingwall. I just like the way way it feels as the body vibrates against my torso and forearm, and the way the fingerboard and strings feel when I pluck a string. I have a semi-hollow Epiphone Zenith bass, but acoustically my AB1 is both louder and more musical. The Zenith thuds, the AB1 sings.

Stability/reliability. My AB1 is often in tune or very very close when I take it off the wall or pull it out of its gig bag. I've adjusted the truss rod less than 10 times over 20 years. I've cleaned the volume and tone pots just once. The frets showed grooves from the round wound strings within the first few days, but seem almost unchanged since then.

Most of these attributes are quite personal, that is, appealing to some but not others. I'd say there is no place for right or wrong assessment here, just personal preference. And I'd bet that most Talkbassers have better ears than I do. But I do know what I like and I do like my AB1. I don't know if any of this speaks to your observation that "it sounds like a bass. Nothing specail to my ears." It may well be that the attributes that I like in my AB1 can't be detected in listening to a recorded bass. Maybe playing one is needed - I don't know. Good luck with your investigating!

 

[monsterthompson]

So what is it about the Dingwall that's making them so valuable? I've watched plenty of reviews and it sounds like a bass. Nothing special to my ears.

Nobody here is going to have a simple answer, and certainly not one you’ll likely find satisfying. There are a variety of factors, from image and branding, to design and build quality, to sponsorship arrangements, to the seemingly irrational consumer behavior as you move into premium territory for any product.

I’ve owned a couple of Dingwalls and played a few others. To be blunt, the ABZ 5 and D Bird (pre D Roc) had various shortcomings that I couldn’t live with. There was plenty to like about them, but you can’t just get the bits you like. They were beautifully built and the electronics were dead silent. If they fit your hands and ears, then you’d be hard pressed to find alternatives. If they’re not your thing then there’s very little that will convince you that there are reasons other people think they’re amazing.

 

[logdrum]

You just have to try them out and have an open mind

 

[monsterthompson]

Okay --- that's 2 owners saying 2 different things

Based on my experiences, I never found the string tension to be a factor, good nor bad. I’m an amateur so maybe better hands than mine would notice the difference.

Actually, as a pick player, I struggled with the angle of the bridge. My hand rested around the B/E string saddles and I had a tendency to pivot from there to get the higher strings which meant I was plucking closer and closer to the bridge. I couldn’t get a floating technique that allowed me to keep my pick attacking equidistant from the bridge on all strings, making for some very twangy notes on the higher strings. It also made the string resistance feel different on each string I picked.

As an amateur with technique issues, take that for what it’s worth.

 

[Fondsdale]

Everything I've heard of Dingwall's import quality has been top notch. Strandberg, OTOH, there's lots of QC complaints about the guitars (not to say they are worse than most brands, but I've seen enough user issues to risk buying one sight unseen).

Regarding desirability, until I played a Dingwall I was never totally happy with any B string's clarity beyond fret 3 or so... even with supposedly great Bs such as EBMM or Spector (or other 35" scales).
Also, I feel most other common multi scales aren't as well designed as Dingwall - others often don't use the full 34"-37" spread and/or skimp on the ergonomic considerations.

I had a NG 2 5 string. I liked the sound but I could never get used different string tension on each string.

Depending on strings, a Dingwall can have pretty balanced tension:

 

[retroXvertigo]

I too, used to wonder how they could charge over 2k for a Chinese made instrument. (This was a few years so when they were much cheaper).

Then I got a NG3 in a trade and it all made sense.

I've bought and sold a few Dingwalls since then. I currently have a 6 string Z3 that I'll never let go, and a SP1. I have an ABZ on order.

I love everything about these instruments. The multiscale, the tiny frets, the ergos. It all just works so well for me.

I play metal and my main rig is Dingwall into an Anagram, but I don't do the standard clank tone. Mines more along the lines of Amos from Tesseract.

 

[EdO.]

Dingeall is probably paying him or gave him the bass for free. Not unheard of in the pro music world.

FWIW. I don't know or recall all of the details, however I have read in a few places that John Taylor BOUGHT his first Dingwall at a music shop somewhere (don't know which one) like any of the rest of us would. Story is that when Sheldon Dingwall heard about it he contacted Taylor and ended up GIVING him a second one identical to the one he bought, as a backup I suppose.

 

[john_g]

Not to derail the OP but, ive always wanted to try one out in person. But, and this is just from the vids ive seen...its not necessarily "my" tone. Still want to try one though.

 

[DeltaPhoenix]

Okay --- that's 2 owners saying 2 different things

Part of the intended benefit of a Dingwall is pretty even tension strings but it’s possible to screw that up if multiscale designed strings are not used. With proper strings there isn’t a floppy B string and thus the B is more clear and focused sounding.

.

 

[Smallmouth_Bass]

Yes, the Chinese made Dingwall prices are fairly expensive, but you have to keep in mind that Dingwall is still relatively small and they do all the setups in Canada. It would be hard to compete dollar-for-dollar with a company like Ibanez that pumps out thousands of instruments a day. And yes, the price of everything has gone up significantly. My most expensive Canadian Dingwall cost less at the time I bought it than a new Chinese one does now.

What makes them so good (or such a "hot commodity")? Even though Dingwall is the pioneer in establishing fanned frets on electric bass, the overall design and ergonomics have been well thought out and refined over many years. And they are quality instruments - even if you take the fanned frets out of the equation.

The first thing I noticed when I got one is, obviously the B-string is awesome, but it was also more playable further up the neck and doesn't have as much of a "woofy" tone and get out of tune past the 5th fret like many other basses do. The bass is also very responsive and unforgiving to poor technique. Once you clean up your technique it is very rewarding.

The 34" - 37" scale models are more of a stretch in the lower register and the fan can be tricky in the upper register, but the majority of my playing is in the mid section where the frets are straighter. So, that is something to take into consideration.

 

[monsterthompson]

but you have to keep in mind that Dingwall is still relatively small and they do all the setups in Canada. It would be hard to compete dollar-for-dollar with a company like Ibanez that pumps out thousands of instruments a day.

This is a factor that gets easily overlooked. Raw material X could be priced across a wide range depending on how much each builder buys from each supplier. I don’t know the specifics but could imagine that if Dingwall used the same fret wire as Ibanez from the same supplier, Ibanez might pay a fraction of the price Dingwall does, which will flow through to the instrument cost. This will include everything from nuts and bolts to pickups and knobs to body and neck wood.

I don’t know if anyone has the numbers and would be able to share but I’d assume that if Dingwall and Ibanez made identical basses but were ordering to sell the quantities they current sell, Ibanez would undercut Dingwall’s price by a significant margin just based on bulk discounts and economies of scale. Mix in Dingwall’s use of custom bridges and pickups, and you’ve bumped the price up even more.

Online it can seem like people expect every dollar of additional price is equivalent to an additional dollar of tone and/or playability. However at some point you reach a plateau of “good” and start paying for subtle nuances. Tone and Playability are primary factors to consider when buying a bass, but ignores a multitude of smaller factors. Some of those don’t matter to some players.

 

[Element Zero]

I as well didn’t have Dingwall dealer close by. Drove 6 hours just to play one. Long story but the TLDR version is I played a friend of a friends modded NG2 5 string and was incredibly underwhelmed. Months later played a stock brand spankin new NG3-5 and came home with it after playing a few other CHOICE basses.

It just fits. The feel. The shape of the neck. The finish. How it plays. It’s excellent. I’d put this up against any EBMM quality wise. In hindsight, I’m not a super fan of the Darkglass preamp. 99% of the time I play it passive. The neck and bridge in parallel does the “j bass” thing REALLY well.

I guess you’d just have to play one to know for sure. The fanned frets took minutes to get used to and the 37” B doesn’t really feel THAT long. The B on a Spector or Warwick Thumb is a prime example of what uncomfortable reach in first position is for me. The ergonomics of the Dingwall package is a breeze comparatively.

 

[gustobassman]

I was a pretty dedicated sadowsky player for a few years... then I brought home a MIC NG3 from Fret Nation to try out.

Havent touched a sadowsky since, sold most of the ones I owned, and play only DW now. My avatar says it all...

I know we arent supposed to talk about it - but if those t______fs never happened, the MIC's would probably be about $500 cheaper in the US market.

 

[lamarjones]

Nah, the difference is clear especially with metal downtuning, the Bs are all that. For motown, no necessary

 

[LadyLoveStingRay5]

I as well didn’t have Dingwall dealer close by. Drove 6 hours just to play one. Long story but the TLDR version is I played a friend of a friends modded NG2 5 string and was incredibly underwhelmed. Months later played a stock brand spankin new NG3-5 and came home with it after playing a few other CHOICE basses.

It just fits. The feel. The shape of the neck. The finish. How it plays. It’s excellent. I’d put this up against any EBMM quality wise. In hindsight, I’m not a super fan of the Darkglass preamp. 99% of the time I play it passive. The neck and bridge in parallel does the “j bass” thing REALLY well.

I guess you’d just have to play one to know for sure. The fanned frets took minutes to get used to and the 37” B doesn’t really feel THAT long. The B on a Spector or Warwick Thumb is a prime example of what uncomfortable reach in first position is for me. The ergonomics of the Dingwall package is a breeze comparatively.

Did you get the opportunity to play the John Taylor model with the Neve preamp? I’m wondering why you didn’t go with that model if you didn’t like the Darkglass preamp? Seems like the JT-5 would be more to your liking.