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Direct Box Selection

davio

davio

Minty Fresh
Nov 2, 2006
879
241
Boston, MA
#1
I posted this in the Live Sound forum but considering the difference in # of members viewing each forum and the fact that it somewhat pertains to amps, I figured I'd be better off posting it here too:

I've always had a head or preamp with a decent DI out so even the most finicky sound guys have either made it work or supplied their own direct boxes but I'm considering buying a new pre to testdrive and it does not have a DI out at all. This necessitates the purchase of a decent direct box to keep in my cable bag (which I've been meaning to do for some time anyway).

I've heard people rave over this box or that (ie. the Countryman, etc.) but I'm in bang-for-the-buck mode as I don't have that much to spend (who does?). What do I need to look for other than the proper ins and outs? Is there really that much of a difference between different direct boxes? Will the average soundman, the audience or I really care if I'm going through a Nady or Behringer $25 deal or a $700 REDDI?

Any input or suggestions would be greatly appreciated. :help:
 
#2
I believe the response to this would differ for live and studio applications. In recording, trying to keep the signal as clean as possible and close to the original signal out of the instrument is aimed at. Later on, you can do on the signal whatever you like, by some effects, reamping, etc. However, in most recording studios (at least in decent ones), they have high-quality DI's, so I am not sure if it is a good idea for the musician to invest in an expensive DI unit, unless he/she is looking for a signature sound. Actually, some might even challenge the effect of the DI in one's signature sound...

For live situations, I think it is a different story. Given the level of general volume, other instruments, technical knowledge and experience of the sound guy, the quality of the PA system, etc., the quality of the DI particularly used for the bass guitar is of less importance. Of course, I am not saying you should go for the DI of the lowest quality in the market, but if you have something more in the "decent" ranks of gear, it should be fine.

In short, I think I cannot tell in most live situations the difference between a top DI like the REDDI, the Countryman, and the $25 Behringer (well, maybe, but maybe, I can tell the last one from the others). Just recently, I bought the Aguilar Tone Hammer just to give it a try and I think it is a great investment for the price and it has a very decent DI.

If I were you, I would buy few different units from a vendor with a return policy. I would stick to the one which has the highest quality/price ratio and return the others, of course, given a certain level of minimum quality.

Cheers,

Alper
 
#3
If I were going that cheap I'd probably see if I could find a passive box. Maybe with a mind toward upgrading the transformer later on. I guess I just don't trust cheap electronics. This is not an especially informed opinion. It's thrown out there as much so more knowledgeable TBers can tell me why it's such a bad idea.

KO
 
#4
I bought a Groove Tubes DITTO (the first version of the Brick) and it makes a HUGE difference in my tone. I used to play venues with $25 DIs and they will severely damage your tone, especially if you aren't using a loud amplifier on stage.

If you depend on a large PA, a good DI is a very important investment.
 
#6
davio said:
I posted this in the Live Sound forum but considering the difference in # of members viewing each forum and the fact that it somewhat pertains to amps, I figured I'd be better off posting it here too:

I've always had a head or preamp with a decent DI out so even the most finicky sound guys have either made it work or supplied their own direct boxes but I'm considering buying a new pre to testdrive and it does not have a DI out at all. This necessitates the purchase of a decent direct box to keep in my cable bag (which I've been meaning to do for some time anyway).

I've heard people rave over this box or that (ie. the Countryman, etc.) but I'm in bang-for-the-buck mode as I don't have that much to spend (who does?). What do I need to look for other than the proper ins and outs? Is there really that much of a difference between different direct boxes? Will the average soundman, the audience or I really care if I'm going through a Nady or Behringer $25 deal or a $700 REDDI?

Any input or suggestions would be greatly appreciated. :help:
Click to expand...

IMO and IME, for live performance at a professional level, the two 'industry leaders' seem to be the Countryman active DI for passive basses, and the Radial JDI for active basses. Both are top notch, around $200, transparent, quiet, and will easily fit into a gig bag. They won't color your sound, but just pass through a totally quiet, accurate reproduction of your bass.

You won't get the treble drop-off and 'cloudiness' of some cheap DI's, and they aren't as 'big and expensive as an amp' as some of the other very high end DI's that were really designed for studio work.

If you need to translate a tube bloomy or distorted tone to the front of house, things get more complicated, and I don't know much about the units that can do that.

Both are great, depending on your instrument type.
 
#7
I am in a very similar position--I want to spend less than 100 bones on a decent DI for live use and for low-budget, messin' around recording. I almost snagged a cheap (sub $30) DI from ebay the other day, but I held myself back and decided to spend a little more. From what I have heard about the country man 85--it seems like the best option available. It's a little more than $100, but I think the extra change is well worth it. The other option for me would be to spurge a little more and do the Aguilar tone hammer. It would provide me with much more than a DI including a whole new mess of tone controls.
 
#8
I'm sure the Countryman would be great, but at $180 it's a little pricey for my current situation. I guess i should've mentioned that I primarily play live and I wouldn't be worried about using a box when recording as most people I've recorded with in the past have either supplied their own DI or miced the cab (or both).

I think what I may end up doing is picking up a $50 Whirlwind for the time being and spring for something like the Countryman or a Radial once I move some old gear.

I really appreciate the input, guys!
 
#9
I would agree that for under $100 the Whirlwind and Radial Pro stuff should do the job. However, I've been using a Countryman for the past 2 years and have previously used a Radial J48 as well and I can tell you that the difference in quality between the sub $100 DIs and something in the $200+ range is quite substantial. If you're spending decent $$ on a good preamp why wouldn't you want to make sure that the sound transmitted from that going to the PA is as good as it can be?
 
#11
I recently bought a used but minty Rapco dB 101 for $20. With active basses it's been fine for the live applications I've used it for so far, but I don't think I'd record through it. My rule of thumb is that the studio has better outboard gear than I do, so I just bring a bass unless an amp sound is required.
 
#12
I own the Type 85 DI, and it works well on phantom power. I remove the battery entirely.

For me, the Radial J48 is the ticket. I'd love to have one of those. I saw one opened up at NAMM, and the guts looked pretty clean.

Scary part was another Radial box opened up, and they are using cheap Chinese no-name capacitors. This is the same crap that shows up in countless computer boards and routers. They swell, pop, and destroy things, or become erratic. Then they come to me for service. I recap a LOT of these things. It's a real pity that Radial opted to use craps instead of premium Japanese Rubycons, Nichicons, UCC, Panasonic, etc.
 
#14
I am happy that i have REDDI.. but more hit records and Live sound stadium style shows have been done with a Countryman Type 85 Di than you can imagine.. The Countryman is an indestructible piece of gear... I have seen them on ebay for as little as $60 at times.... Not only does the Countryman have a very high input impedance which is great for acoustic basses without a pre. but for me i found it works well for Passive basses and you can hit it real hard with am Active bass too.. the FET input can take a fairly huge voltage swing.. And there is a switch to allow it to take Speaker Amp level input too...
The Radial passive DI is a great sounding box too but i have not used it enough to really say anything.
I dont think that you have to spend alot of money on a DI. Although i did...

You asked about the average audience.. well i dont think even a discerning audience will notice the difference in different DIs in a mix at a live show..with all the other things going on around... unless the box is just terrible or the audience is a bunch of audiophiles...:rollno:.... and for studio, i would use whatever the studio has unless you are nutty like me and bring your own DI... but i love my REDDI
 
#15
Hands down, best bang for the buck is an MXR M-80. Great tone shaping, make it sound clean or like a tube amp. Parrallel line out for a tuner or to your amp. I use mine as a "backup amp" in my bass case and i use it as my "amp" in the practice room so never have to leave an amp there or take one with me.
 
#16
I've mixed sound at 100's of shows in my life and have been a bass player for over 30 years.
It is very doubtful that an audience member could hear the difference between a Countryman or a passive Whirlwind, assuming that the soundman understood your sound, cared, or had the inclination to do anything other than get through the sound check ASAP so he could either eat dinner, drink, or get high.

Save your money, if they have a decent PA they have a D.I. box.
If the PA is that small, and they don't have a D.I. it won't have enough headroom for bass anyway.
If you must buy gear, either buy something really good (used Countryman is good) or something really cheap but respected (used Whirlwind Imp or Director)
 
#18
I have read a lot of recommendations for using a passive DI with an active bass and an active DI with a passive bass, which makes sense, but I would prefer to just carry a single device in my gig bag regardless of which bass I am playing.

Last weekend I played a passive bass through a passive DI and the level was very attenuated. For a live situation, would an active DI like the Countryman be acceptable for both active and passive basses? (I use an Avalon U5 for recording.)

What do you normally do when you play both active and passive at a gig, bring 2 DIs?

To use a single device for both types of basses should I get a preamp/DI like the Bassbone, Sadowsky or Tone Hammer?
 
#19
I think we need to stop with this "audience can't tell the difference" lowest common denominator mode. They can't tell, but WE can. And since it's our job to deliver good sound to the audience, I see no reason to buy a $40 crap DI just because it's cheap and the audience can't tell the difference. As always, you get what you pay for.

OTOH, a REDDI is $700, weighs 10 lbs., and is 14" long. Even the most tonally anal bassists have a hard time carrying something like that to gigs. But for a handful of them it's totally worth it. Me, I would love one if it was the size of the Radial ;)

Anyway, you shouldn't totally cheap out, but you don't have to spend $700 either. A good Countryman or Radial would be a great choice.
 
#20
pajohnso58 said:
I have read a lot of recommendations for using a passive DI with an active bass and an active DI with a passive bass, which makes sense, but I would prefer to just carry a single device in my gig bag regardless of which bass I am playing.

Last weekend I played a passive bass through a passive DI and the level was very attenuated. For a live situation, would an active DI like the Countryman be acceptable for both active and passive basses? (I use an Avalon U5 for recording.)

What do you normally do when you play both active and passive at a gig, bring 2 DIs?

To use a single device for both types of basses should I get a preamp/DI like the Bassbone, Sadowsky or Tone Hammer?
Click to expand...
This active/passive nonsense is REALLY getting too anal for my tastes. Get a good solid DI and you can use it with any bass.
 

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