Direct Out - pre or post eq?

[Fuzzbass]

Evidently, this doesn't apply to guitarists. Or keyboard players for that matter. Why is it so important that the bass tone stays the same?

Excellent point.

I go with the soundman's preference because it's the path of least resistance, but prefer mic or post-EQ.

 

[peterpalmieri]

Collectively during these discussions the guys that can clearly articulate what they want and can put themselves on the same side of the table as the sound guy usually have good results, be it pre, post or mic.

It's the guys that insist and argue and don't allow the soundman to work in his comfort zone that come into problems.

 

[KJung]

Collectively during these discussions the guys that can clearly articulate what they want and can put themselves on the same side of the table as the sound guy usually have good results, be it pre, post or mic.

It's the guys that insist and argue and don't allow the soundman to work in his comfort zone that come into problems.

This sums it up for me.

 

[KJung]

Excellent point.

I go with the soundman's preference because it's the path of least resistance, but prefer mic or post-EQ.

+1 to this also. Not a simple answer. Of course, if you work with a soundperson regularly, things get easier (usually) and you can start messing with the signal and work together on getting the best sound.

Since I do the freelance sort of stuff, I typically get about 15 seconds to play a line or two, then another minute of grooving with the drummer for sound check, and that's it.... so 'pre EQ' simple does it for me usually.

Of course, the major touring guys have multiple DI's, mutliple cabs mic'd, etc., etc., so no 'wrong or right way'.

I think I'm coming around to Jimmy's point about 'if you aren't sure... pre EQ'. If you are in a more working relationship with a soundperson, then you can get a bit more fancy.

 

[JimmyM]

Collectively during these discussions the guys that can clearly articulate what they want and can put themselves on the same side of the table as the sound guy usually have good results, be it pre, post or mic.

It's the guys that insist and argue and don't allow the soundman to work in his comfort zone that come into problems.

what if the soundman's comfort zone takes me out of mine? i'll give you an example...

had a gig recently where the 810e they supplied was great and i wanted it mic'ed. all they had was a d112, which i hate, so i just took a line out of the head and asked the soundman to turn down the treble past 5k. he says, "but you need that to get that pop when you dig in or slap."

i said, "but i don't like it. it takes me right out of the music anymore to hear that popping sound. 5k is plenty for me."

he said, "but you need it and i need it to be able to mix you."

i finally said, "ok, i'll tell you what. you just go ahead and leave it and i'll just leave my british pedal on the whole time and cut everything past 5k myself and not give you the choice."

and i did.

i can work with a soundman and i do all the time, but when he takes me out of my comfort zone to make himself comfortable and put his own stamp on our mix regardless of our opinions, that's where i draw the line. and that's why i will never give the soundman ultimate control anymore. true, he basically has it, but if he wants to make it a war, i can go

 

[rockstarbassist]

My amp is set relatively flat as-is and I need the OD circuit in the preamp so I go Post. I've yet to have a complaint b/c I don't scoop or frown, etc. it.

 

[BurningSkies]

what if the soundman's comfort zone takes me out of mine? i'll give you an example...

had a gig recently where the 810e they supplied was great and i wanted it mic'ed. all they had was a d112, which i hate, so i just took a line out of the head and asked the soundman to turn down the treble past 5k. he says, "but you need that to get that pop when you dig in or slap."

i said, "but i don't like it. it takes me right out of the music anymore to hear that popping sound. 5k is plenty for me."

he said, "but you need it and i need it to be able to mix you."

i finally said, "ok, i'll tell you what. you just go ahead and leave it and i'll just leave my british pedal on the whole time and cut everything past 5k myself and not give you the choice."

and i did.

i can work with a soundman and i do all the time, but when he takes me out of my comfort zone to make himself comfortable and put his own stamp on our mix regardless of our opinions, that's where i draw the line. and that's why i will never give the soundman ultimate control anymore. true, he basically has it, but if he wants to make it a war, i can go

Been there. Did a theater show a while back and ran DI pre-EQ. All night, I could hear high-treble out of the front end, the back wall of the theater and it distracted me for our whole set. The rest of the band noticed, and I had some of our regular fans (who had traveled over an hour to see us) came up and asked 'what was wrong with the sound?'. I'm sure the sound guy thought he was doing us a favor.

 

[rockstarbassist]

Been there. Did a theater show a while back and ran DI pre-EQ. All night, I could hear high-treble out of the front end, the back wall of the theater and it distracted me for our whole set. The rest of the band noticed, and I had some of our regular fans (who had traveled over an hour to see us) came up and asked 'what was wrong with the sound?'. I'm sure the sound guy thought he was doing us a favor.

Last time I did Pre that's what I got too. Clank and clack the entire set. Was horrible.

 

[QweziRider]

I avoid an DI if at all possible. I like my sound, it is "me", and I choose to carry my own mic'ing setup so as to make life smooth for the FOH. Half the time, mixers seem open to the idea, the other half they don't (yet try it anyhow), and all but one time (that guy was a known jerk around town anyhow with non-music issues, so the hell with him) they like it in the end mic'd.

 

[jarrhead]

So far I've only run either directly into PA or Pre-EQ.

...

So far I've only had good sound guys as well.

 

[Lowest End]

what if the soundman's comfort zone takes me out of mine? i'll give you an example...

had a gig recently where the 810e they supplied was great and i wanted it mic'ed. all they had was a d112, which i hate, so i just took a line out of the head and asked the soundman to turn down the treble past 5k. he says, "but you need that to get that pop when you dig in or slap."

i said, "but i don't like it. it takes me right out of the music anymore to hear that popping sound. 5k is plenty for me."

he said, "but you need it and i need it to be able to mix you."

i finally said, "ok, i'll tell you what. you just go ahead and leave it and i'll just leave my british pedal on the whole time and cut everything past 5k myself and not give you the choice."

and i did.

i can work with a soundman and i do all the time, but when he takes me out of my comfort zone to make himself comfortable and put his own stamp on our mix regardless of our opinions, that's where i draw the line. and that's why i will never give the soundman ultimate control anymore. true, he basically has it, but if he wants to make it a war, i can go

That sounds to me like more of a situation with a douchebag sound guy who doesn't really know what he's doing than anything else. Yes, unfortunately, there are lots of those.

When it really comes down to it, as a soundguy I keep in mind that it's the band's show and not mine and go as far as I can to getting them what they want. If I can't for technical or logistical reasons I meet them as far as I can. And, equally as unfortunately, there are lots of douchebag bands that don't know what they're doing too.

 

[unclekebm]

Collectively during these discussions the guys that can clearly articulate what they want and can put themselves on the same side of the table as the sound guy usually have good results, be it pre, post or mic.

It's the guys that insist and argue and don't allow the soundman to work in his comfort zone that come into problems.

yep

 

[Calaverasgrande]

As a sound guy I usually prefer post EQ actually. If their settings are too crazy I can use a low cut or roll off the top end quickly to make it fit.
It is true, that a sounds guy rarely puts more than 5% of his attention to the bass tone. I spend more time getting the vocal, kick and snare to sound full and present, after that its keys, horns, or any other harmonic instruments. The bass just needs to be audible and occupy the lower mid-bass somewhat. As long as it isnt intermittent it really isnt so crucial actually.

If I am working on a big enough desk (and the stage isnt too boomy) I always mic and DI the bass. Some bassists sound really awful direct no matter the DI settings. They coerce that bass to sound good with the amp and cab.

 

[Marcus Willett]

I get the mic'ing thing... don't get the 'post EQ DI to send my sound to the board' thing at all.

One thing I've often asked but never been able to get anyone to respond to is a fairly simple question.

For those of you that feel that the signal sent to the FOH should be straight from the instrument and not post-EQ (the rationalization being that whatever EQ you apply only works for your bass cab and will more likely than not make things worse in the house): Wouldn't that logically mean that onboard EQ on your bass is a bad idea for exactly the same reason?

If EQ-ing for yourself is inherently a bad idea, it doesn't matter if it occurs before the 1/4" out or after; it's still before the DI.

Yet we're constantly sold the idea that onboard EQ is a good thing.....?

So, inside the bass good; outside in a box, bad?

 

[BurningSkies]

One thing I've often asked but never been able to get anyone to respond to is a fairly simple question.

For those of you that feel that the signal sent to the FOH should be straight from the instrument and not post-EQ (the rationalization being that whatever EQ you apply only works for your bass cab and will more likely than not make things worse in the house): Wouldn't that logically mean that onboard EQ on your bass is a bad idea for exactly the same reason?

If EQ-ing for yourself is inherently a bad idea, it doesn't matter if it occurs before the 1/4" out or after; it's still before the DI.

Yet we're constantly sold the idea that onboard EQ is a good thing.....?

So, inside the bass good; outside in a box, bad?

That's also one of the reasons that I chose to go active...While I do EQ at the amp, I also EQ at the bass, and if I need to DI before the amp, I can still be reasonably sure to be giving a representative tone to the board. Also, as I've gone to a 'neutral' and reasonably 'flat' amp setup, I have a good idea what I'm getting out of my amp is what is happening up to the board.

 

[Marcus Willett]

Also, as I've gone to a 'neutral' and reasonably 'flat' amp setup, I have a good idea what I'm getting out of my amp is what is happening up to the board.

Me too (with my amp), yet this is usually dismissed by the pre-DI crowd as a bad thing. Of course I have my "passive EQ" Villex setups now.

 

[BurningSkies]

Me too (with my amp), yet this is usually dismissed by the pre-DI crowd as a bad thing. Of course I have my "passive EQ" Villex setups now.

In the years I've been playing on stage (since the 80's), I've almost always offered to 'save the sound man some time' and just use the DI on my amp (set post, of course). I'm considerate that way, and I've very rarely had someone say no. I can't remember the last sound person who complained about what my amp was sending (or even asked), except for when I had my Mesa 400+, which was an era when I ONLY got complaints. And I had complaints then too.

The reality is that while I have gear preferences, my playing always sounds like my playing no matter what bass I've had in my hands or what amp/cab setup I've used. My right hand attack, left hand action go with me wherever I go...I'd like to keep that being what the audience hears, not what a sound man who may have heard us 10 times or less thinks my sound should be. Yes, they need to cater to the acoustic realities of the room, but a good sound person should be trying to faithfully reproduce the sonic properties of the band, not trying to be a sit in member.

 

[Marcus Willett]

...what a sound man who may have heard us 10 times or less thinks my sound should be...

(emphasis mine) That is the fundamental problem right there, IMO.

 

[Jerryr63]

My P-Bass (I'm old school......I like the way it sounds) goes to a compressor (BBE OptoStomp) then a distortion pedal set for minimum drive (Ibanex Phat Head) then to a Radial Eng. Passive DI and to my an Eden amp. The Phat Head is off 90% of the time.

I use the DI output from the Radial. I like to use the EQ on the amp to set my stage sound.

 

[rockstarbassist]

One thing I've often asked but never been able to get anyone to respond to is a fairly simple question.

For those of you that feel that the signal sent to the FOH should be straight from the instrument and not post-EQ (the rationalization being that whatever EQ you apply only works for your bass cab and will more likely than not make things worse in the house): Wouldn't that logically mean that onboard EQ on your bass is a bad idea for exactly the same reason?

If EQ-ing for yourself is inherently a bad idea, it doesn't matter if it occurs before the 1/4" out or after; it's still before the DI.

Yet we're constantly sold the idea that onboard EQ is a good thing.....?

So, inside the bass good; outside in a box, bad?

No.
I use features onboard my amp that are only available Post DI. I also like how my preamp sounds through the PA and through my monitor mix, which is kinda why I have it. I also like to use active basses for a number of reasons. None of them are extremely shaped or EQ'd. It's actually an impossibly simple solution.