Disappointed with Ampeg PF-115HE.

[bassman1161]

I tried out a PF-500 today through a PF 115 & PF 210. The low mid growl and punch was fantastic. Gotta run both to get that classic Ampeg sound. The 210 on its own was a bit thin on the E string. The 115 was just great! But when added to the 210, it was a winning combo. :thumbup:

 

[Jpstout]

I have a PF-500 that works just dandy through my SVT4x10 setup... and for an anniversary, I decided to go get a PF-115HE to mount that thing in.

1st one I got worked great initially... Took it to a rehearsal and had no issues. Got it back here and was going to set up for a recording session and it was pretty much dead. Didn't sound like blown speakers.. more electric in nature.. lotta cracking and popping.. sort of like an AM radio. I hooked up my SVT7 to it, and got the same result.

Returned the cab via Guitar center and 4 days later had another one. This one was DOA. Same exact problem out of the box. Back to Guitar Center.

I'm going to let them send me one more, that's brand spanking new... no out of box, or refurb stuff... and try that. If it fails... I'm kicking portaflex cabs to the curb and getting the SVT 1x15E shipped to me. Might should have just done that in the 1st place... but was going for portability.

Guess you get what you pay for...

 

[LHbassist]

Apologies for the long post- but it's on point.
Recently, I purchased a MINT used PF-500 head and PF 210 HE from a local player. Before my appointment with him to try the amp out, I went to my local Guitar Center. They have the same combo on the floor there. I also know most of the people there, so, I can be a jerk with volume! lol!... so, I brought my GB Shuttle 9.0, and problematic but promising Carvin BRX 210 down to test it, and the Ampeg portaflex for comparison. Well, the Carvin cab had a defect- turned out to be the Carvin neo drivers. Rattle, buzz, and back to the drawing board kinda stuff. The test moved on to the PF stack. PF 500, 210 HE cab. It was beyond disappointing, it was surprising. ALL the notes on a Squier, and a PRS 4 string bass, from 'A' down on the 'E' string made the cabinet sound horrible. My 5 string (in my Avatar) with Alembic pickups was a torture treatment for it... ugh. As if it were afflicted with emphysema. Farting, a weird doppler wolf tone effect. I wrote it off to a worn, or abused floor model speaker. But in the back of my mind, I suspected something was amiss.
NOW, it gets really interesting. I really dig the PF500.. in spite of all the bad press, I really like its' features, and I do keep an open mind. But bad sound, especially for us bassists, is unacceptable, regardless of the fact that I'm from Woodside, Queens, New York City, the original home of Ampeg. And, as such, and as a Queens wise ass, I speak my mind- the truth is the truth, even if it sucks to hear it.
I played a stock 4 string MIJ P-bass through the rig at the seller's house. And, it sounded IDENTICAL to the demo model at GC. NO low frequency handling capability at all on the low notes. To me, ah, isn't that what we buy bass amps for? So all the notes will be clean, clear, and not sound like someone turned a low frequency faucet off after 'A' down on the 'E' string? I bought the rig anyway, it was a GREAT deal. So, after some chat here, and a truly miraculous revelation- That I have an unused old 4-10 Avatar cabinet with the original Eminence 410 NEO 300 watt 8 ohm 2510lf drivers in it- That I could fix two issues at the same time. I installed two of them in the Carvin BRX 10.2, PROBLEM SOLVED.
Then, I installed the remaining two in the Ampeg PF 210 HE. PROBLEM SOLVED!
The issue? Beautiful looking, but crappy factory drivers, that cannot handle low frequencies- or aren't matched to the cabinet! That is where these manufacturers are cutting costs. Now, my PF combo has two Avatar 8 ohm Eminence 2510lf Deltalites, 300 watt in parallel- so 500 watts at 4 ohms, into these drivers that are rated for 600. Killer, now, I just need to port the cab. Or, maybe not?
P.S., I have a mint first generation Acoustic B-200 combo. I recently compared the now 200 dollars more expensive unit to EVERY other combo at GC, and it still kicks all their asses! A great amp. And, even with the PF mods- it will be hard for it to keep up with the Acoustic.

 

[jason the fox]

I think we have different tastes on good tone and how well a cab handles low end lol.

I've been digging a PF 500 and single PF 210HE, and so far i couldn't be happier. I find it's got plenty of juice and the EQ and settings are marvellous. It's imitates the tube feel and tone better than any SS or hybrid I've played. Even does a VERY reasonable fake job of an overdriven SVT (if you're into that). I played mine mainly with an Am Std Precision last night at rehearsal and had no trouble getting great definition and growl from all notes on the E string, and it really sang and projected mids as well. I'm a big Ampeg fan but I'd admit if it sounded bad to me lol. Have to have realistic expectations out of a single 210, which it sounds like you do - I think that the voicing of this particular cab in stock form just isn't your thing

Edit: Just wanted to add that I don't own or play any 5-string basses - so as far as how well this amp and cab could accommodate that low B, I can't comment - but I could see it potentially struggling to keep it together if pushed.

 

[Jim Carr]

So glad I don't have to concern myself with such things as getting maximum volume out of a cab.

Unlike most bass players using a single Ampeg PF-115HE?

 

[Jim Carr]

...I do keep an open mind. But bad sound, especially for us bassists, is unacceptable, regardless of the fact that I'm from Woodside, Queens, New York City, the original home of Ampeg. And, as such, and as a Queens wise ass, I speak my mind- the truth is the truth, even if it sucks to hear it...
...The issue? Beautiful looking, but crappy factory drivers, that cannot handle low frequencies- or aren't matched to the cabinet! That is where these manufacturers are cutting costs...

Well, costs also get cut by using child labor, but just imagine what could happen if you had a cabinet matched to great drivers.
BTW, I was a Flushing Queens kid (Kissena Blvd & 73rd Ave) for a number of years, and I can hear 'YA real good from over here!

 

[JimmyM]

Unlike most bass players using a single Ampeg PF-115HE?

Even when I was using a single PF115he, I never had to push it hard.

 

[Jim Carr]

Even when I was using a single PF115he, I never had to push it hard.

Good thing. But then a person can buy two!

 

[GoLeafsGo]

Good thing. But then a person can buy two!

You say that like it's a bad thing.....

 

[LHbassist]

Here it is in a nutshell- I'm almost 63. I'm playing bass since 1967. I've owned so many amps and speaker cabinets- if you put them all on the floor of a small store- it would look like the bass amp section at Guitar Center. I bought my first REAL bass amp- an Ampeg BT-15C, solid state fliptop in 1968. It had a blue electro- luminescent panel that lit up and I loved it. It had two 15's, and pushed big bass out at a reasonably loud volume. I've had mid sixties (64- and 66) B-15N's one with a K-140, and a 1969 SVT with an original dolly cab, and a later -mid seventies towel bar cab. I had a solid state rat fur covered 120 watt B-410 combo, bought one after seeing Anthony Jackson use one with Buddy Rich.
It sounded wonderful. I had a V4B, and a trade acquired Gemini 2, which I gave to a friend...and played through dozens of Ampegs in rehearsal and recording studios. I had a 90's B-248. I briefly had a B-410 HLF cab. ALL OF THOSE amps and cabinets produced usable, if not a bit distorted from simple studio wear and tear- bass tones. All were 'gigable' units. As you can see, I'm no Ampeg hater. I have a long, positive history using Ampeg bass amps. I went to P.S. 11 elementary school- on Skillman Ave. in the Woodside section of Queens, New York City, a few blocks from the Ampeg factory. All of my Ampegs got sold or traded to do things like pay the rent- or get different gear to try out. I take care of my gear. I am no abuser. I know the limits of the amp and cabinet it is driving. I understand more than the average user of amplifiers does about things like standing waves, sound pressure levels, amplifier damping factors, speaker Xmax, impedance, and such. I'm no expert, just above average level of knowledge. THAT SAID:
I have NEVER heard the phenomena I have recently from the PF500 - PF210 HE.
This is not cabinet voicing, or driver mismatch that I thought might be an issue. The Ampeg drivers, supposedly made by Eminence- while seeming to work correctly- simply cannot produce even a decent amount of real usable bass. When I tried my PF rig out at home, QUIETLY, because of neighbors... The bass control never went past 12 o'clock, and the speakers could not handle even that. Maybe Ampeg had a run of defective speakers? I cannot imagine spending 800 dollars on this rig, and taking it to a gig expecting it to sound anything like my beloved Ampegs of the past. I'm fairly certain this is why the seller sold it to me. The swap of the stock Eminence speakers for Eminence Deltalite 2510 LF's made all the difference in the World. Ampeg should take notice of this issue.

 

[Jim Carr]

...Maybe Ampeg had a run of defective speakers? I cannot imagine spending 800 dollars on this rig... ...I'm fairly certain this is why the seller sold it to me. The swap of the stock Eminence speakers for Eminence Deltalite 2510 LF's made all the difference in the World. Ampeg should take notice of this issue.

There have been reports of defective drivers in PF-115 cabinets, as in posts #18 and #19. I wonder if you shouldn't contact Ampeg? Nothing is perfect, including 10" drivers. You could just send them the drivers. If they turn out to be fine, OK. If not, well, enquiring minds want to know!

 

[SickAura]

The Ampeg drivers, supposedly made by Eminence- while seeming to work correctly- simply cannot produce even a decent amount of real usable bass.

Something is very wrong here. Either the cab has issues or expectations are not set appropriately for a 210 cabinet. I have PF gear and have no issue getting usable bass and shaking the foudations whether solo practice or in band situations. Clearly YMMV

 

[GoLeafsGo]

Something is very wrong here. Either the cab has issues or expectations are not set appropriately for a 210 cabinet. I have PF gear and have no issue getting usable bass and shaking the foudations whether solo practice or in band situations. Clearly YMMV

Have to agree with SickAura, have a PF500 into a PF115HE, and there is more than enough bottom end. Had to move some stuff in our music room to keep it from rattling, if there is nobody playing drums have to turn the snare off too, and it really isn't turned up that loud.

 

[whitespikebass]

My PF500 never worked long enough to see if the cab was any good.

 

[LHbassist]

I know, from the point of view of a 45 year professional bassist and session musician, what I heard, from two, identical Ampeg units. I really do not know if those stating here, that there are no issues with their PF500 PF210HE combos, whether they have truly great drivers that kick ass- or are just in denial about the possibility of what I've said in my posts being true. I know, from a controlled, easy to implement experiment, that the stock Ampeg purple framed Eminence 16 ohm drivers crapped out at even BELOW normal gig volume. TOTALLY unacceptable to me, a pro that wants to GIG live with this beautiful looking combo! And after replacing them with 2510Lf's, with a proven performance history in an Avatar cabinet, I was totally convinced that the stock drivers are either inferior, or just defective. Ampeg- Please, use drivers that can produce frequencies below 200hz in a sealed cabinet!

 

[LHbassist]

Just a P.S to everyone- I have a Euphonic Audio VL210, a Peavey Pro 210, and a Carvin BRX 10.2 neo cabinet. Carvin had driver issues- and I replaced the neo drivers with Neo Deltalites- issues gone. The Euphonic is a killer studio monitor quality transmission line cabinet that is marvelous as a near field monitor. The downside is that mine weighs about 72 pounds, and even though it is a way more expensive cabinet- it will not fill the room with bass like my Carvin does! The Peavey, was sold as a trade off to finance my Ampeg PF purchase. ALL my 2-10 cabinets not only produce more usable clean low end than the stock PF210, they can be turned up, and be used on a gig. My expectations of ANY bass cabinet- regardless of driver size- is that it can be actually used in any reasonable application of cleanly amplifying bass guitars, like on a gig or in the studio, or in a Church, or recital room, at a decent volume. Simple requirement it seems.
I'm keeping my upgraded PF210He- Just got a nice, simple, durable cover for it from MDB covers. Fits great.

 

[SickAura]

I am pushing 1 or 2 PF115HE's with a PF800 in loud rock bands - never had it fart out - always loud enough - sorry your experience isn't as positive

 

[LHbassist]

I'm keeping my Ampeg PF500 PF210HE, as it is now quite gigable, after replacing the unsuitable stock drivers with Eminence Deltalite 2510's. I even got an MDB ballistic Nylon cover for it. That should signal my willingness to give it a shot. I've seen all the negative posts regarding the 500 head. Mine seems to be o.k., but I will indeed take my Shuttle 9.0 head to gigs, just in case I have any issues with it. It's only 4 pounds, so no big deal. I know that my posts regarding the serious flaw in the PF210He cabinet- are likely the only series of threads and posts that address this. And a p.s., My experience is positive- I've learned a lot about these amps- and I hope I've made others aware of the driver issue...along with the incredible deal I got- Head and cabinet, both- for $250.00! AND, I HAD the Deltalites already. I sold a Peavey cab, and my total cash outlay was 50 bucks!

 

[jpspradley]

I own the same PF-115HE combo, w/ the 500w head.
Until you add a ported sub-cab to that rig - then it will always sound a little nasally, as it's a sealed design.
When I added the PF-115LF cab w/ rear shelf porting beneath, in keeping with matched gear - I was pleasantly floored!

First, your Portaflex 500 head is only going to run at 350w with the 115HE cab, by itself.
So, my first thought is signal distortion, more than speaker.
Drop another 8ohm ported sub-cab beneath and I'll bet your eyes will widen... The head will relax with less resistance.
Just thought I'd add my two cents.

I'm off - THUNDER TIME!
All my Best... Knobs to the Right!
Jas-

 

[svtb15]

just for the heck of it. I wonder if the speakers were wired out of phase by mistake??

Here it is in a nutshell- I'm almost 63. I'm playing bass since 1967. I've owned so many amps and speaker cabinets- if you put them all on the floor of a small store- it would look like the bass amp section at Guitar Center. I bought my first REAL bass amp- an Ampeg BT-15C, solid state fliptop in 1968. It had a blue electro- luminescent panel that lit up and I loved it. It had two 15's, and pushed big bass out at a reasonably loud volume. I've had mid sixties (64- and 66) B-15N's one with a K-140, and a 1969 SVT with an original dolly cab, and a later -mid seventies towel bar cab. I had a solid state rat fur covered 120 watt B-410 combo, bought one after seeing Anthony Jackson use one with Buddy Rich.
It sounded wonderful. I had a V4B, and a trade acquired Gemini 2, which I gave to a friend...and played through dozens of Ampegs in rehearsal and recording studios. I had a 90's B-248. I briefly had a B-410 HLF cab. ALL OF THOSE amps and cabinets produced usable, if not a bit distorted from simple studio wear and tear- bass tones. All were 'gigable' units. As you can see, I'm no Ampeg hater. I have a long, positive history using Ampeg bass amps. I went to P.S. 11 elementary school- on Skillman Ave. in the Woodside section of Queens, New York City, a few blocks from the Ampeg factory. All of my Ampegs got sold or traded to do things like pay the rent- or get different gear to try out. I take care of my gear. I am no abuser. I know the limits of the amp and cabinet it is driving. I understand more than the average user of amplifiers does about things like standing waves, sound pressure levels, amplifier damping factors, speaker Xmax, impedance, and such. I'm no expert, just above average level of knowledge. THAT SAID:
I have NEVER heard the phenomena I have recently from the PF500 - PF210 HE.
This is not cabinet voicing, or driver mismatch that I thought might be an issue. The Ampeg drivers, supposedly made by Eminence- while seeming to work correctly- simply cannot produce even a decent amount of real usable bass. When I tried my PF rig out at home, QUIETLY, because of neighbors... The bass control never went past 12 o'clock, and the speakers could not handle even that. Maybe Ampeg had a run of defective speakers? I cannot imagine spending 800 dollars on this rig, and taking it to a gig expecting it to sound anything like my beloved Ampegs of the past. I'm fairly certain this is why the seller sold it to me. The swap of the stock Eminence speakers for Eminence Deltalite 2510 LF's made all the difference in the World. Ampeg should take notice of this issue.