Disillusionment or realism?

[hbarcat]

One other route works every time. Go to a venue where DJs are. Go to several of them. Listen to what they are playing. Build your setlist around that. DJs have access to every song in Earth. If it kills, they can spin it. So if you go see 6 DJs and hear 30 or so songs they all play, play those songs.

I would suggest OP do the same thing. Go to venues where the DJs play. Listen to what they are playing. Form a band that can do a lot of those songs.

The only other suggestion it to set yourself apart from all other live bands. Do something different. . . .

. . . Put on a show. Playing the songs well is literally about half of it. In fact, I know really expensive wedding bands that kind of half @$$ quite a few of their songs. But they bring the show. You are not in the audio arts. You are in the audio VISUAL arts. You put on a show, and play songs that most other bands can't/won't, and you'll be fine.

This is the best advice any band could get. In my last band, we played the same classic rock covers as a bunch of other bands in our area, but we made a point to distinguish ourselves with a unique style in how we played and performed that became a sort of "signature sound" that people remembered and enjoyed enough to see us again and recommend us to friends.

We always made the highest priority of putting on the best show possible. There's a lot that goes into that and it takes a lot of work but if we were content to play songs with a "it's good enough" attitude, then we'd be just like other bands with 20 followers who play 1 gig every 2 months and don't get paid enough to make it worth showing up.

 

[Tazziedevil]

Hobart, Tasmania here.
I’ve went to details here in a few previous threads about my difficulties- which ironically mirror yours in a lot of ways.

most bands here have been together for 10+ years, And the younger musicians are in 2,3 or more bands the few people I have found to play with didn’t work out- especially guitarists, most notable one who couldn’t play in 12/8 time (a problem if you play blues) and an older guitarist who threw a hissy fit because he couldn’t shred every single tune. I know a singer who is great, we are both actively searching for others. This has been going on for about 4 1/2 months.

it’s disheartening to say the least. I’m not even concerned with playing live; I’d be happy to just jam regularly with cool people, but I’m. It sure it will happen in the city I live in.

 

[Gothic]

Thanks for the replies and advice guys!

Well, last night was first tryout with my own band. I went for a classic rock kinda thing. I love classic rock and could never find a band that did it well enough. So, I gave the rest five relatively tough tunes so I'd see whether we can pull it off. Aaaaand it was kind of a disaster, honestly. Songs were rock n roll by Zeppelin, Carry on by Kansas, threw a wildcard with heaven and hell by Sabbath, burn by Mr.Big (bass solo ftw) and drummer wanted damaged by Sass Jordan so I said why not.

Well, first off, female singer. Can't cut it with rock, really. Tonally she's fine but the presence is just not there. She's a nice singer and nice person but her vocals lack that certain power. She'd be fine in something completely different but rock? Despite her best efforts, nope.

Guitarist was pretty much the only one out of everyone that contacted me that seemed sociable and not a complete moron. Young guy, had the will but lacked the chops and couldn't get a good sound out of his gear if his life depended on it. On the plus side, he seems willing to try and is a good kid, on the other hand, he's really sub par and he can't cut it as the sole guitarist in such a band.

Drummer's awesome, I really like the dude and he can play, no compaints there.

So... Surprisingly, we didn't totally butcher the tunes. But we kinda did. Rock 'n' roll's a pretty easy tune to play but a tough sob to remember! We did not complete it.
Burn was a tough one but we kinda sorta managed. Heaven and hell came out alright, although the guitarist couldn't play the solo quite as the original and we had to improvise the cue and kinda wrecked it there. Damaged came out pretty nice but it was the easiest of them all and had female vocals too, so it was to be expected. Carry on was so-so but we did manage to play it right all the way through so that's something, I suppose.

Anyway, come the end of it, we sat down to talk. Everyone voiced their opinions and, as expected, the drummer, being in two other relatively active bands, says he wants to try stuff out but will bow out if he sees he doesn't have the time. Guitarist pretty much mirrors this. Singer's also young and very timid but wants to tough it out, although she did seem somewhat dishearted by the whole thing.

We talked about changing the whole song selection and trying to find songs that would fit the singer. Granted, that's a very logical approach but, to be honest, we'd be going away from the others' (myself included) tastes (we're all classic rock fans) to accomodate the singer and I don't think it's worth it.
On the other hand, there aren't any male singers that can go high enough for what I want and, while I can sing and hit those notes, I'm not really trained properly and if I'm singing the higher notes my voice gets physically tired very quickly. I'm fine for backing vocals or a tune or two but I'm not a lead singer. Other female singers fall into the same category as the one we've got now.

In any case, I don't think this is going anywhere, to be honest. I just get that vibe where it'll be us trying to find tunes we collectively dislike just to get a setlist going and it'll most likely fall apart in a month or two at the most. And, lacking any other offers through the ads I placed, I think I'll just call it quits.

 

[turf3]

Do you want to play gigs or just jam and hang?

The reason I ask, is that as far as I know, every single market on earth is by now over-saturated with bands playing that repertoire. Meantime, the enthusiastic audience for that repertoire gets older and less interested in going to loud bars every year. If you want to get together with likeminded folks and rock out every so often, there's nothing on earth wrong with that. But paying gigs? You'd better be red-hot, have a deep deep song list, dynamic stage presence, and even then you'll be competing for $50 per person bar gigs against a whole bunch of other bands who do the exact same thing with great skill.

Personally, I wouldn't cross the street to hear another band play Kansas, Black Sabbath, Led Zeppelin songs; been there, done that.

I stepped away from a lifetime of nibbling at the bottom edge of professional music about fifteen years ago and I have never been sorry I did. I'm playing great music with great folks, but no one wants to pay to hear it, and I have decided that's just fine.

 

[socialleper]

Let me know when you figure it out. I love writing, I love playing with my band, and I love the 30 to 45 minutes I'm onstage. Everything else about being a musician sucks donkey nads.
It is an endless money pit, you get treated like a cross between a piggy bank and a pinata, and everything is half @$$ed. It is the most socially acceptable way for me to tell the world to #$%& itself, so here we are.

 

[Gothic]

Do you want to play gigs or just jam and hang?

The reason I ask, is that as far as I know, every single market on earth is by now over-saturated with bands playing that repertoire. Meantime, the enthusiastic audience for that repertoire gets older and less interested in going to loud bars every year. If you want to get together with likeminded folks and rock out every so often, there's nothing on earth wrong with that. But paying gigs? You'd better be red-hot, have a deep deep song list, dynamic stage presence, and even then you'll be competing for $50 per person bar gigs against a whole bunch of other bands who do the exact same thing with great skill.

Personally, I wouldn't cross the street to hear another band play Kansas, Black Sabbath, Led Zeppelin songs; been there, done that.

I stepped away from a lifetime of nibbling at the bottom edge of professional music about fifteen years ago and I have never been sorry I did. I'm playing great music with great folks, but no one wants to pay to hear it, and I have decided that's just fine.

Well, I like playing live and I'd love to play something I actually like. I may not love the available venues - quite the contrary to be honest, but since I do like playing live, they're pretty much a necessary evil. And of course, by "venues" I mean mostly bars... Still, to my knowledge, not many bands playing this stuff here. If any! I don't think it's that oversaturated here as it is on your side of the pond, really.

Now whether there's an audience for it... Well, it's complicated. There's no real audience for smaller, local bands, be them cover or originals. It's just friends and friends of friends as well as networking members of other bands that go to live shows and support the bands. There's no "venue audience" anymore, it's just "band audience". And it sucks, yes, but sadly, I don't think that's gonna change in the foreseeable future.

As for the money, while I could certainly use more of, there's no decent money to be made playing gigs. I acknowledge and accept that. It's just for the love of playing live I'd do this, although I do refuse to play for free or "exposure" or whatever imaginary currency some would present.

You'd have to be BIG (read, extremely popular and stellar at networking) to make anything decent. And that translates to spending every single night in these "venues" (since it seems there's some band playing someplace every other day) networking and watching other bands and practically hemorrhaging money on gas, tickets, beer and practically spending your nights schmoozing people in other bands, just to get them to come to your shows. Let's just say it's not a tactic I'm particularly fond of.

 

[Runnerman]

Unfortunately you can't just play everything YOU like. It doesn't work that way. And yes you won't be getting a lot of money often for doing that. I have to play Jenny Jenny and Mustang Sally every gig and I get paid and have gigs because I'm playing what PEOPLE want. Here in the south if you don't play a minimum of 4 Skynyrd tunes in a night you suck, and you will hear about it.

We are ruthless with our songs. No B sides and if nobody's moving or excited, it's gone. The small bars are not looking for following, they have their clientele, they are looking for entertainment and drink sales from the regulars for the most part. If the regular crowd doesn't like you the first time, you won't be back no matter how many followers you bring.

@two fingers hit it on the head. Song selection and presentation. They are the only differentiation you have from all the other bands coming through. Learn how to do it well and you have a better chance to succeed.

Youtube isn't the kind of performance I want to do or see. I still like live music for the most part but different strokes. I wish you luck.

 

[smeet]

The small bars are not looking for following, they have their clientele, they are looking for entertainment and drink sales from the regulars for the most part.

This is *radically* different from the LA scene. Here, they don't care at all about keeping regulars happy. They want your band to bring in lots of new people.

 

[Runnerman]

This is *radically* different from the LA scene. Here, they don't care at all about keeping regulars happy. They want your band to bring in lots of new people.

Yes I guess very different. I'm not talking so much about the music venue type establishments but the regular bars that have 2-3 different bands every weekend. The competition here is tough, eastern North Carolina. We play a lot of biker based places which tend to have very loyal clientele.

 

[Gothic]

Unfortunately you can't just play everything YOU like. It doesn't work that way. And yes you won't be getting a lot of money often for doing that. I have to play Jenny Jenny and Mustang Sally every gig and I get paid and have gigs because I'm playing what PEOPLE want. Here in the south if you don't play a minimum of 4 Skynyrd tunes in a night you suck, and you will hear about it.

We are ruthless with our songs. No B sides and if nobody's moving or excited, it's gone. The small bars are not looking for following, they have their clientele, they are looking for entertainment and drink sales from the regulars for the most part. If the regular crowd doesn't like you the first time, you won't be back no matter how many followers you bring.

@two fingers hit it on the head. Song selection and presentation. They are the only differentiation you have from all the other bands coming through. Learn how to do it well and you have a better chance to succeed.

Youtube isn't the kind of performance I want to do or see. I still like live music for the most part but different strokes. I wish you luck.

I was talking about the genre. It's a hobby, I'm not expecting to make any real money out of it and, being that, I want to enjoy it. Which in turn translates to playing at least a genre I enjoy. If the money were good I'd even play in a death metal band but this isn't about making a living.

Yeah, what smeet said is pretty much what I said above. There are no bars with steady clientelle that you can play to. There are bars/venues/whatever that "let" you play, in exchange for your friends' and willing acquaintances' cash.

I wholeheartedly agree with both you and two fingers. He's certainly bang on the money but that is, provided there actually is a scene for any band to be different and draw in a bar's audience. An audience that's not friends, family and all that, that -you-, as a band, are required to bring to any venue.

It used to be like that and, looking back, I really relish those days where you had to be good, competent and different to keep an audience coming to your shows. But with the advent of the internet and social media and the decline in venues, along with the economic BS over here, those days are long gone, I'm afraid.

 

[Shalto]

I suspect the entertainment path to succeed is back to front to what is was. You used to play out to build a following. Now you use YouTube to build a following so someone might come to see you play out (and post selfies of their experience)

 

[bearfoot]

Finally got my Youtube streaming working good last weekend. It took a lot more troubleshooting and headaches than I expected, I'd given up for several months, but am glad I tried again.

Though I'm a newb at internet broadcasting, here's my tips:

- OBS software Open Broadcaster Software | OBS lets you use a USB audio interface instead of webcam audio. Very few cameras or webcams have audio-in, or decent mics. The Zoom Q2N has both of these features.

The camera is the weakest part of the Zoom Q2Ns. Reason: no manual focus control whatsoever. And no optical zoom. If you zoom in, you lose resolution. The Zoom is not good at all for vacation video or that sort of thing. But for what it's designed for, it's good. It has a VERY wide angle lens.

Be advised that OBS software can and will start broadcasting before you also hit "Go Live" on your Youtube page. Lol. Any time you have a webcam turned on and connected to an internet source, you should assume it is visible.

If you do use a Zoom Q2N or similar device in the field, its VERY finnicky about micro-SD card. It will work with any cell phone charger / battery pack, which bypasses the rate at which it will chew through AA's. (I use rechargables....if you get rechargables, take note of the capacity....)

 

[WI Short Scaler]

The only other suggestion it to set yourself apart from all other live bands. Do something different. We have chosen to be a very vocal centric band. We do tons of harmonies (all cover songs so far). We play songs most bands can't or won't do because they either don't have the vocal chops or are too lazy to learn the songs. We get asked to play more than we want.

Exactly this, pounding out some great vocals was always our strength as a group. That and having a cajon instead of drums, people would stop just out of curiosity and stay when they liked the music they heard.

Of course, we're still just a Dad band so our opinions are of little value around these parts.

Still good advice though.

 

[arbiterusa]

A good reputation as a player lasts only as long as people know you're on the scene.

This is important to note. I never got sideways with anyone here in San Diego, but I left town for twenty years, and in spite of still knowing quite a few of the working players, when I came back it took me two years to land my first gig and four to get re-established to the level I was when I left.

 

[Bassdirty]

One other route works every time. Go to a venue where DJs are. Go to several of them. Listen to what they are playing. Build your setlist around that. DJs have access to every song in Earth. If it kills, they can spin it. So if you go see 6 DJs and hear 30 or so songs they all play, play those songs.

I would suggest OP do the same thing. Go to venues where the DJs play. Listen to what they are playing. Form a band that can do a lot of those songs.

The only other suggestion it to set yourself apart from all other live bands. Do something different. We have chosen to be a very vocal centric band. We do tons of harmonies (all cover songs so far). We play songs most bands can't or won't do because they either don't have the vocal chops or are too lazy to learn the songs. We get asked to play more than we want.

One more thought. Don't spend your money on too much video equipment. Spend your money on PA, lights, and stage clothing. Show up looking like you mean business. Put on a show. Playing the songs well is literally about half of it. In fact, I know really expensive wedding bands that kind of half @$$ quite a few of their songs. But they bring the show. You are not in the audio arts. You are in the audio VISUAL arts. You put on a show, and play songs that most other bands can't/won't, and you'll be fine.

So put up another ad looking for members of THAT band.... the band that will play smash hits, execute them well, and put on a SHOW. Put in the ad that your goals are both playing music AND making some money. You'll get different responses from your other ads... if there are ANY pro quality musicians in the area.

Mostly agree, BUT, ya gotta move quick.
My last coverband was quite successful by playing current hip and happening tunes. (along with the typical songs). Songs get popular so quick these days, and they also leave quick.


T$