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Dissapointed in Sadowskys

#81
Ladies and gentlemen.
I don't think anyone can find one sentence of flame in my
original comments. Its like sitting at a big table playing
"telephone" with you guys. My comments were made out of
frustration. I have the utmost respect for the Sadowsky
shop. I WANT A SADOWSKY!!! BUT!! How can you argue
with my statement that a bass is well over 10 lbs, and too
heavy??? Perhaps these basses hadn't yet settled from
construction and shipping, but they were supposedly set up.
They played like crap. I've had students come in with $200
Ibanez basses with less fret buzz, better action and better
b strings, right out of the box. I've played other Sadowsky's
that I loved. After some reflection, I realized they were all
nyc basses. I also stated quite clearly that the ergonomics
were great on these basses. BUT, it seems like the three
Metro 5's I played were all about the active electronics.
Without it, none of these instruments were worth near
$2,000. Maybe it was this run, or these particular basses,
but they just didn't play or sound like (in passive mode)
$2,200 basses. Again....... I like Sadowky!!
 
#82
B String said:
Ladies and gentlemen.
I don't think anyone can find one sentence of flame in my
original comments. Its like sitting at a big table playing
"telephone" with you guys. My comments were made out of
frustration. I have the utmost respect for the Sadowsky
shop. I WANT A SADOWSKY!!! BUT!! How can you argue
with my statement that a bass is well over 10 lbs, and too
heavy??? Perhaps these basses hadn't yet settled from
construction and shipping, but they were supposedly set up.
They played like crap. I've had students come in with $200
Ibanez basses with less fret buzz, better action and better
b strings, right out of the box. I've played other Sadowsky's
that I loved. After some reflection, I realized they were all
nyc basses. I also stated quite clearly that the ergonomics
were great on these basses. BUT, it seems like the three
Metro 5's I played were all about the active electronics.
Without it, none of these instruments were worth near
$2,000. Maybe it was this run, or these particular basses,
but they just didn't play or sound like (in passive mode)
$2,200 basses. Again....... I like Sadowky!!
Click to expand...

Cool.
 
#83
Jared Morante said:
Not to fan the flames but does it seem like every Sadowsky owner has something negative to say about Fodera's? Obviously not all of them but I never see Sadowsky players saying "I had a Smith and the Sadowsky KILLS it!"

It's almost as if...naaaah....
Click to expand...

Hey Jared,

I understand what you're saying... and don't take this as a defensive response as your post did say "not all," I just wanted to throw in my thoughts. I just posted on another Sadowsky thread that it is my second favorite bass next to. . . yep, Fodera. I think the reason you often see people drawing the comparison is because Fodera is widely recognized now for their custom basses, and their custom bass prices. And I think there's a certain feeling that Fodera is "the bass company to beat" if you will, people want to be able to say that their ______ out-plays a Fodera.

This might elicit cries of outrage from every corner of talkbass, and that's fine, it's only my opinion. :hiding:
 
#85
I had some thoughts on this heated subject which I wanted to toss in.

I saw the term bashing being thrown around and it made me wonder if I had unintentionally "bashed" someone elses point of view ......err his individual choice in gear...at some point.
Then after some deliberation, I had these thoughts.
I like to read posts from you guys that are pro and con on whats "out" there. It's really helpful for me. I really appreciate the time you guys take in posting your views and valuable expirience.

This information helps me survey the field as to how a particular bass/gear item is being perceived by bass players. It's a specialized viewpoint!


If I read a post from someone who is posting a bunch of generalities like:"such and such brand is bad" or "this bass just sucks" or "its horribly made" I automatically disregard that post because it lacks specifics.

But if someone writes, "I tried it, I couldn't hang because the neck was too wide, or tone was too dark, or the bass was too heavy, or it was too expensive for what I got" etc etc, then that gives me the reasons WHY he feels that way.
My personal viewpoint is, if there are specifics given, and its fairly factual, and its straightforward, and is free from degrading comments, and it expresses the writers opinion, then I value THAT post for what it is. After all its why I cruise this site, to get other's views. I think its a given that your gonna come across divergent views from time to time.
Thats whats so dang GOOD about this site!

I think as a group (and we really are a group here) we tend to want to help others. I think its basic to our nature. When someone posts an opinion, I see it as that one persons attempt to help others.

But I get a little frustrated a little when I read others replies to these expressed "viewpoints" that thier views are not valid or wanted just because that view is not TRUE for them. Furthermore, I feel that any response that is blatantly invalidative, ie; "your high" "your nuts" etc etc IS BASHING in itself of the original posters view!

I have observed that sometimes we humans tend to loudly object about things which we have done ourselves. Maybe bashing could be better defined in a way that clears the path for bass players to offer thier opinions without fear of "being flamed" ?

Anyway, pardon my straying into the field of philosophy here but I thought maybe it might be a valid view in light of what I have seen on this site in an attempt to make if an even better place for bassist to come for information.
 
#86
tonenazi said:
I had some thoughts on this heated subject which I wanted to toss in.

I saw the term bashing being thrown around and it made me wonder if I had unintentionally "bashed" someone elses point of view ......err his individual choice in gear...at some point.
Then after some deliberation, I had these thoughts.
I like to read posts from you guys that are pro and con on whats "out" there. It's really helpful for me. I really appreciate the time you guys take in posting your views and valuable expirience.

This information helps me survey the field as to how a particular bass/gear item is being perceived by bass players. It's a specialized viewpoint!


If I read a post from someone who is posting a bunch of generalities like:"such and such brand is bad" or "this bass just sucks" or "its horribly made" I automatically disregard that post because it lacks specifics.

But if someone writes, "I tried it, I couldn't hang because the neck was too wide, or tone was too dark, or the bass was too heavy, or it was too expensive for what I got" etc etc, then that gives me the reasons WHY he feels that way.
My personal viewpoint is, if there are specifics given, and its fairly factual, and its straightforward, and is free from degrading comments, and it expresses the writers opinion, then I value THAT post for what it is. After all its why I cruise this site, to get other's views. I think its a given that your gonna come across divergent views from time to time.
Thats whats so dang GOOD about this site!

I think as a group (and we really are a group here) we tend to want to help others. I think its basic to our nature. When someone posts an opinion, I see it as that one persons attempt to help others.

But I get a little frustrated a little when I read others replies to these expressed "viewpoints" that thier views are not valid or wanted just because that view is not TRUE for them. Furthermore, I feel that any response that is blatantly invalidative, ie; "your high" "your nuts" etc etc IS BASHING in itself of the original posters view!

I have observed that sometimes we humans tend to loudly object about things which we have done ourselves. Maybe bashing could be better defined in a way that clears the path for bass players to offer thier opinions without fear of "being flamed" ?

Anyway, pardon my straying into the field of philosophy here but I thought maybe it might be a valid view in light of what I have seen on this site in an attempt to make if an even better place for bassist to come for information.
Click to expand...

Well said. I've been wanting to throw up a post like that since I first saw this thread, but couldn't be bothered typing it out! You've covered how I feel perfectly.

Personally, I'm a huge fan of Sadowsky basses. I own two, and I think they're great basses. But I enjoy readng constructive criticism of Roger's instruments (or any instruments, for that matter) as it can often be enlightening to check out another person's perspective on an instrument.

B String - I don't think you've done anything wrong here. You liked the look of the bass, you gave it a fair trial, but you decided it wasn't for you. That's cool.
 
#90
burk48237 said:
I would never start a thread bashing someone elses product unless I had personally knowledge of an unethical business practice being involved, I personally owned a very expensive 4 string from a major manufactor in the mid 80's it retailed for over 4000$ (lots of money in 84). After having numerous problems during the ordering process, I recieved a bass that wasn't what I ordered (wrong top, wrong scale length) the retailer was so frustrated he knocked 500 off the price and I went home with what I thought was a great bass. What I owned was a one trick pony, that could achieve one artist's sound as long as it wasn't on a a stage, It was stiff,and couldn't cut thru the mix if if the mix was melted butter. I sold that bass at a considerable loss! I have never started a thread saying, "whats wrong with ------- basses", and when someone ask for my opinion, I preference every comment, with I don't know whats going on with there shop now, and I'm sure there makeing products people like.
So now some comments on this thread:
#1 It's not that bad, really you should have read the Sadowsky threads when I Luv Pink was here!!
#2 Don't take it so seriously, It's just a bass. They are not talking about your kids or your mother ( I know Mikebass and if you read his comments in context they wern't that bad) Were talking about two pieces of wood,a bunch of wires, some recycled piano strings, and an overpriced piece of tortose shhell!
#3 I own a Sadowsky, I think it's great that some people don"t "get it"
I didn't for a while my self, It cost me a lot of other wasted experiences to discover my Metro was "the one".
#4 Dispite the fact I think Roger sprinkles angel dust on every one, I wasn't put on the earth to convince everyone to buy one, and unless there's some compensation (Roger a 5 string alder/maple special top would be nice) I don't worry if there not convinced
#5 It's better for us Sadowsky owners if they don't "get it". That way we'll continue to get all the gigs while other bassist suffer with grossly inferior equipment, JUST KIDDING........
Click to expand...

Just curious... what cost $4,000 back in 1984? My only guess would be Alembic.

I got a custom-built Tobias omega cut 5 in 1984... it retailed at $2500.
 
#91
tonenazi said:
I had some thoughts on this heated subject which I wanted to toss in.

I saw the term bashing being thrown around and it made me wonder if I had unintentionally "bashed" someone elses point of view ......err his individual choice in gear...at some point.
Then after some deliberation, I had these thoughts.
I like to read posts from you guys that are pro and con on whats "out" there. It's really helpful for me. I really appreciate the time you guys take in posting your views and valuable expirience.

This information helps me survey the field as to how a particular bass/gear item is being perceived by bass players. It's a specialized viewpoint!


If I read a post from someone who is posting a bunch of generalities like:"such and such brand is bad" or "this bass just sucks" or "its horribly made" I automatically disregard that post because it lacks specifics.

But if someone writes, "I tried it, I couldn't hang because the neck was too wide, or tone was too dark, or the bass was too heavy, or it was too expensive for what I got" etc etc, then that gives me the reasons WHY he feels that way.
My personal viewpoint is, if there are specifics given, and its fairly factual, and its straightforward, and is free from degrading comments, and it expresses the writers opinion, then I value THAT post for what it is. After all its why I cruise this site, to get other's views. I think its a given that your gonna come across divergent views from time to time.
Thats whats so dang GOOD about this site!

I think as a group (and we really are a group here) we tend to want to help others. I think its basic to our nature. When someone posts an opinion, I see it as that one persons attempt to help others.

But I get a little frustrated a little when I read others replies to these expressed "viewpoints" that thier views are not valid or wanted just because that view is not TRUE for them. Furthermore, I feel that any response that is blatantly invalidative, ie; "your high" "your nuts" etc etc IS BASHING in itself of the original posters view!

I have observed that sometimes we humans tend to loudly object about things which we have done ourselves. Maybe bashing could be better defined in a way that clears the path for bass players to offer thier opinions without fear of "being flamed" ?

Anyway, pardon my straying into the field of philosophy here but I thought maybe it might be a valid view in light of what I have seen on this site in an attempt to make if an even better place for bassist to come for information.
Click to expand...

Great post! +1 :D
 
#92
B String said:
Ladies and gentlemen.
I don't think anyone can find one sentence of flame in my
original comments. Its like sitting at a big table playing
"telephone" with you guys. My comments were made out of
frustration. I have the utmost respect for the Sadowsky
shop. I WANT A SADOWSKY!!! BUT!! How can you argue
with my statement that a bass is well over 10 lbs, and too
heavy??? Perhaps these basses hadn't yet settled from
construction and shipping, but they were supposedly set up.
They played like crap. I've had students come in with $200
Ibanez basses with less fret buzz, better action and better
b strings, right out of the box. I've played other Sadowsky's
that I loved. After some reflection, I realized they were all
nyc basses. I also stated quite clearly that the ergonomics
were great on these basses. BUT, it seems like the three
Metro 5's I played were all about the active electronics.
Without it, none of these instruments were worth near
$2,000. Maybe it was this run, or these particular basses,
but they just didn't play or sound like (in passive mode)
$2,200 basses. Again....... I like Sadowky!!
Click to expand...

I certainly don't think you're flaming, and I respect your opinion and would never say "you're high"...but that doesn't mean I'm not perplexed by your experience. I just spent half a day at Roger's shop playing all manner of Sadowskys, Metros and NYCs, Vintage, Ultra Vintage, 24 Fret, P/Js, you name it and I played it. On average the Metros are about a half a pound heavier than the NYCs. Way over 10 lbs.? Not so. Check out the Sadowsky site and you'll find that the heaviest Metro is around 9.6 lbs., with most closer to 9 lbs. and even a few 5 strings under 9 lbs.

My Metro did arrive with the action set too high for my taste. An easy fix of course, and now my Metro plays like a dream. $200 Ibanez's that play better and have better B strings right out of the box? If any bass that is supposedly set up has fret buzzes and plays like crap, well then they certainly were not properly set up, or they have reacted to change in climate etc. and need another adjustment.
 
#93
This was a good thread. I did not feel that anyone was bashing Sadowsky at all. I said over 10 years ago at the first Bass Player Round Table that every builder has a fan base that thinks they make the best instrument on the planet. There is perfection in that. I have a great relationship with most of my fellow builders.

What I think is important is that a builder has a "voice" or a "point of view" and stays with it. I have less respect for builders who will build a bass with whatever pickups or preamp or wood the customer wants. Where is the builder's voice when you do that?

Regarding the tone of my bass in passive mode: If that was the basis upon which you wanted to judge a Sadowsky, I would encourage you to go with my single coil pickups. My humcancelling pickups are a little thin and scooped in passive mode, but I love them when the preamp is engaged. I also view passive mode on a Sadowsky as primarily a "fail safe" mode for the electronics. Personally, once I dial in a Sadowsky in active mode, it is hard for me to switch to passive mode.

Roger Sadowsky
 
#94
Hi!

Get over it guys. I said B was high. So what. I say it to my friends all the time. Figure of speech. I've been on this forum a long time. I pretty much only comment on Sadowsky basses because thats what I play. Im fair, but to the point. I would never open a thread to say how disappointed I was in a builders effort. That was my objection. Could have been about Fodera, OLP, or Musicman. I dont go in those threads, so I dont comment there.

B might be the coolest guy in the USA. Wont know until I meet him some day. His responses to mine were pretty cool, calm, collected. He didnt seem all too upset. I think he knew what I was getting at. Cool B. Peace to all and Sadowsky rules

Rob
 
#97
Sadowsky said:
This was a good thread. I did not feel that anyone was bashing Sadowsky at all. I said over 10 years ago at the first Bass Player Round Table that every builder has a fan base that thinks they make the best instrument on the planet. There is perfection in that. I have a great relationship with most of my fellow builders.

What I think is important is that a builder has a "voice" or a "point of view" and stays with it. I have less respect for builders who will build a bass with whatever pickups or preamp or wood the customer wants. Where is the builder's voice when you do that?

Regarding the tone of my bass in passive mode: If that was the basis upon which you wanted to judge a Sadowsky, I would encourage you to go with my single coil pickups. My humcancelling pickups are a little thin and scooped in passive mode, but I love them when the preamp is engaged. I also view passive mode on a Sadowsky as primarily a "fail safe" mode for the electronics. Personally, once I dial in a Sadowsky in active mode, it is hard for me to switch to passive mode.

Roger Sadowsky
Click to expand...

Roger. Thanks for helping me make my point. I was not
aware that the passive mode was mainly a fail safe. It makes
more sense now. As I've said over and over, the active tone
was just wonderfull. Thanks for not taking my comments as
"slamming" your basses. I have a number of friends who play
your basses. They're all wonderfull. My comment about the
Ibanez basses shocked me too, but... the metro's I played,
didn't have very low action, but still had a good amount of
fret buzz and "clanging". After my dealings with you and the
guys in the shop, I can only say again, I hold you and your
"voice" in the highest esteem. Nice guys! I would still love to
find a Metro to love and make it my voice. Great ergonomics,
tone, and electronics. Just need to find a lighter one that
playes better. Again, thank you Roger.
 
#98
The sounds I hear from Ricky Minor's Sadowsky 5 week after week on American Idol sure impresses me with the Sadowsky tone. Gonna definitely give a Sadowsky a try. Most likely a Metro. the only place I haver reservations is the lack of a mid range control. I use it all the time on my F bass to help dial in more growl and cut through the band mix. But I sure don't hear any problems with The Sadowsky getting lost in the mix either. Guess it cuts just fine huh?
 

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