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Dissapointing High-End Basses
- Thread starter jnammy
- Start date
I love TB. Someone starts doggin' something and saying this or that is garbage in a thread, the builder comes in and asks for some more constructive criticism. Criticism ceases? 
I may never be the market for boutique builders - I am broke as a joke and try to score gear used. These custom instruments are art, not simply a product. Why do so many fail to see that? I compare it to a dining experience, McDs is a fast way to get fed, and if you are satisfied with that, good for you! I know many who spend quite some dough for a quality dining experience. You can do the same with instruments. I am glad I have some good friends who let me try their high end gear, they are great instruments.
I get by with my instruments
I do think it is cool that builders check in on what people say or think of their instruments. I thought the customer service Fodera offered Vic while he was without his instrument was top notch and inspiring.
I may never be the market for boutique builders - I am broke as a joke and try to score gear used. These custom instruments are art, not simply a product. Why do so many fail to see that? I compare it to a dining experience, McDs is a fast way to get fed, and if you are satisfied with that, good for you! I know many who spend quite some dough for a quality dining experience. You can do the same with instruments. I am glad I have some good friends who let me try their high end gear, they are great instruments.
I get by with my instruments
I do think it is cool that builders check in on what people say or think of their instruments. I thought the customer service Fodera offered Vic while he was without his instrument was top notch and inspiring.
It's really easy to make quiet pick-ups, but there are trade-offs. My Dingwall FD-3 pick-ups aren't noiseless, but the noise floor is totally manageable and I like the sound.
Even if I spent $300 on a bass(yet alone $3000)and had noise issues like that I would assume that a repair would be needed, why would somebody(anybody)intentionally make a bass that's that's too noisy to rehearse with?
By the way, my Sadowsky has singles, which was an upgrade and so does my MIM Jazz 5, both with no objectionable humming issues. In any case, there's something to be said about a high quality custom instrument and there's also something to be said about a high quality stock-ish instrument that is consistent, tried and true. I would imagine that consistency, in terms of playability, sound, feel, and weight is something that is hard to achieve by a truly custom luthier. On the other hand, customizability is hard to achieve for the high-end stock instrument builder. I guess it boils down to personal preference.
I always thought when I specified single coils with Roger they were true single coils. I know he does offer hum canceling versions. I now it seem's don't have true single coils in mine! So they must be the noisiest hum canceling pick ups around.... they do hum just that slight bit when they are soloed.... but it does take a lot to hear it!
This , to me , is more a personal preference issue than a build quality or tone issue so here goes... Really, the only thing keeping me from really digging on these basses were my preference for a more traditional, more grindy Fender-ish tone. Keep in mind with this rant that my ideal bass is my G&L L-2500. I will qualify that, even though it is a departure I absolutely loved my Cirrus and adore my USA Spector NT.
Status S2. Kind of a neat bass but heavy and kind of sterile sounding and generally non-descript tonally. It isn't necessarily a bad thing as people may opt for a more generic tone but... yeah. The neck had an uncomfortable ( to me) flat radius and a high spot that seemed to buzz out of control. It wasn't necessarily a bad bass just wholly unremarkable for the price.
Zon Legacy Elite: This was my dream bass for years, ever since I laid my hands on my first Sonus. It was pretty mellow sounding and heavier than most Zon basses I had played. Again, not a bad bass but turned out not to be my cup of tea. If you're looking for the super jazz Zon sound, the Legacy isn't it. It was very low-mid centric with somewhat subdued high mids. Very clean but boring sounding.
LowEnd Jazz Bass: In almost every respect a great bass. Pretty heavy but it was a 5 string with full size ash body. I went in expecting a super jazz in the vain ( vein?) of Alleva Coppolo or Celinder but got something that was pretty far removed from the traditional souped up jazz sound. Again, I'm sure many people would differ but that's just my take. Brian at the LowEnd was a pleasure to deal with.
Skjold bass: It was an offset 5, I believe. Very light with a nice feeling neck but, as with the Status and LowEnd bass I felt that it lacked it's own character. The pickups, I imagine, would be described as fairly neutral with a very versatile EQ. I prefer pickups with character being influenced somewhat by the bass as opposed the opposite. Pete knows what he's doing but it's not a bass for someone looking for a more vintage vibe.
To each his/her own/
Status S2. Kind of a neat bass but heavy and kind of sterile sounding and generally non-descript tonally. It isn't necessarily a bad thing as people may opt for a more generic tone but... yeah. The neck had an uncomfortable ( to me) flat radius and a high spot that seemed to buzz out of control. It wasn't necessarily a bad bass just wholly unremarkable for the price.
Zon Legacy Elite: This was my dream bass for years, ever since I laid my hands on my first Sonus. It was pretty mellow sounding and heavier than most Zon basses I had played. Again, not a bad bass but turned out not to be my cup of tea. If you're looking for the super jazz Zon sound, the Legacy isn't it. It was very low-mid centric with somewhat subdued high mids. Very clean but boring sounding.
LowEnd Jazz Bass: In almost every respect a great bass. Pretty heavy but it was a 5 string with full size ash body. I went in expecting a super jazz in the vain ( vein?) of Alleva Coppolo or Celinder but got something that was pretty far removed from the traditional souped up jazz sound. Again, I'm sure many people would differ but that's just my take. Brian at the LowEnd was a pleasure to deal with.
Skjold bass: It was an offset 5, I believe. Very light with a nice feeling neck but, as with the Status and LowEnd bass I felt that it lacked it's own character. The pickups, I imagine, would be described as fairly neutral with a very versatile EQ. I prefer pickups with character being influenced somewhat by the bass as opposed the opposite. Pete knows what he's doing but it's not a bass for someone looking for a more vintage vibe.
To each his/her own/
thepontif said:
@thepontif that's just my street way of saying i was not feeling the pickups lol. The pubs on the fodera was the seymour duncan custom shop dual coil pickups.
Like I said for others they sound great for me in IMHO not great. I just giving my feedback on this thread just like everyone eles no offence to any fodera owners.
I played alot of made in Germany Warwicks,the ones that cost alot of money..
They were quite the same as the cheaper German warwicks.
Its like paying extra $$$ for no reason.
I don't know if you consider Music Man as High End(Stingray and Bongo),but when I played these two it felt like playing on a heavy piece ******..
It sounds bad,its heavy as hell,and I will never understand why people like these.
They were quite the same as the cheaper German warwicks.
Its like paying extra $$$ for no reason.
I don't know if you consider Music Man as High End(Stingray and Bongo),but when I played these two it felt like playing on a heavy piece ******..
It sounds bad,its heavy as hell,and I will never understand why people like these.
Just Thumpin'
Commercial User
- Mar 7, 2008
- 4,534
- 1,664
- Disclosures
- Manager and Partner, Fodera Guitars (10/14/09 - 12/16/19)
That is exactly that I said..."unless you specified true single coils," which you say that you did and so you probably do (have single coils). LOL
J
J
I always thought when I specified single coils with Roger they were true single coils. I know he does offer hum canceling versions. I now it seem's don't have true single coils in mine! So they must be the noisiest hum canceling pick ups around.... they do hum just that slight bit when they are soloed.... but it does take a lot to hear it!
Really that doesn't count?...well still the bass sounded like crap. also I was informed that gibson is terrible at making basses. I was informed that gibson basses sounded like crap except for the gibson thunderbird. that was their only decent bass.
How, exactly, does crap sound? Also, you were informed incorrectly, IMO. Here are a couple of examples of a Gibson that sounds very unlike "crap" to me:
YouTube - Cream Playing Badge at their 2005 Reunion
YouTube - Cream - NSU (2005) Live At Royal Albert Hall
pablomigraine
Commercial User
A Stambaugh with a Kahler, EMG PJs, and a Pope pre.
It's a fun bass. Some/most would consider it too bright, but that was part of the goal and design.
one could look at disappointment with an instrument as being a combination of many things, among them:
1. buyer's remorse: who hasn't bought something (anything), and then thought and rethought the purchase to the nth degree? when the price goes up, the remorse can go up exponentially.
2. expectation: "this bass will be IT," it will do everything the buyer needs it to do and will help them achieve their goals—and it's going to be perfect. again, price makes expectation go up exponentially.
3. people: being what they are, nothing is *ever* going to be perfect—even when manufacturing is done with the aid of machines. imho, people forget this at their own peril.
4. the need for instant gratification: the idea that something is going to be perfect the minute it comes out of the box. (hell, when you get a car you have to adjust the mirrors and seats—and it make take a while to figure that out.)
5. paradigm shift: in my view, when people shift from what they're used to–something with which they have a comfort level—and go to something new, it may cause growing pains and friction.
as mike pope said, sometimes it has more to do with *us*—how we interface with the instrument, what we think it's going to do. maybe we thought the woods and electronics were what we *wanted* and they ended not being what we really *needed*.
caveat: if the neck is warped, etc., these comments go by the wayside.
analogy (cause that's how i roll): went out with a girl, great person. it ended up that she wasn't for me—even though it seemed like she was when i first went out with her. i broke up with her. a drummer i was playing with checked with me to see if he could go out with her. 30 years later they're still married. i met someone 3 years later, still married to her . . . . and we still have to realign with each other all the time.
p.s. the use of terms like "garbage" to make one look "street" often make one look belligerent and lacking in civility.
1. buyer's remorse: who hasn't bought something (anything), and then thought and rethought the purchase to the nth degree? when the price goes up, the remorse can go up exponentially.
2. expectation: "this bass will be IT," it will do everything the buyer needs it to do and will help them achieve their goals—and it's going to be perfect. again, price makes expectation go up exponentially.
3. people: being what they are, nothing is *ever* going to be perfect—even when manufacturing is done with the aid of machines. imho, people forget this at their own peril.
4. the need for instant gratification: the idea that something is going to be perfect the minute it comes out of the box. (hell, when you get a car you have to adjust the mirrors and seats—and it make take a while to figure that out.)
5. paradigm shift: in my view, when people shift from what they're used to–something with which they have a comfort level—and go to something new, it may cause growing pains and friction.
as mike pope said, sometimes it has more to do with *us*—how we interface with the instrument, what we think it's going to do. maybe we thought the woods and electronics were what we *wanted* and they ended not being what we really *needed*.
caveat: if the neck is warped, etc., these comments go by the wayside.
analogy (cause that's how i roll): went out with a girl, great person. it ended up that she wasn't for me—even though it seemed like she was when i first went out with her. i broke up with her. a drummer i was playing with checked with me to see if he could go out with her. 30 years later they're still married. i met someone 3 years later, still married to her . . . . and we still have to realign with each other all the time.
p.s. the use of terms like "garbage" to make one look "street" often make one look belligerent and lacking in civility.
- Apr 24, 2004
- 1,359
- 53
- Disclosures
- Designer Fodera Guitars/Michael Pope Design, Inc., Trickfish Amplification
I love TB. Someone starts doggin' something and saying this or that is garbage in a thread, the builder comes in and asks for some more constructive criticism. Criticism ceases?
That is interesting!
- Apr 24, 2004
- 1,359
- 53
- Disclosures
- Designer Fodera Guitars/Michael Pope Design, Inc., Trickfish Amplification
I hear you. To bring someone else's point about constructive criticism into this...being the guy who probably designed and built the electronics in that bass you didn't like the sound of, I was interested in knowing when it was made, etc., because I'm always interested in the impression various changes make on the playing public. So I was just looking for information. I'm not an "offended fodera owner", I'm a concerned Fodera "maker", to some degree. Fodera and I both take care to make the best product we can reasonably make.
