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Distortion

D

Dirty_G

Jun 15, 2005
27
0
#1
Hi Guys.

I have a Boss Distortion pedal for my Bass actually its an overdrive where you can put the gain up on it and change it from a dry singal to a wet signal. I put the distortion on the Bass anyway but I am fidning that it seems to have a very hard time with people being able to distinguish individual notes. I played the Muse song Hysteria as part of our set and as far as I am concerned it came out as a big line of distortion. Is there a good way of making the notes sound individual?? :confused:
 
#2
Dirty_G said:
Hi Guys.

I have a Boss Distortion pedal for my Bass actually its an overdrive where you can put the gain up on it and change it from a dry singal to a wet signal. I put the distortion on the Bass anyway but I am fidning that it seems to have a very hard time with people being able to distinguish individual notes. I played the Muse song Hysteria as part of our set and as far as I am concerned it came out as a big line of distortion. Is there a good way of making the notes sound individual?? :confused:
Click to expand...

I prefer bi-amping because you can blend more of the original signal (which defines the notes more). If that's not possible, perhaps another pedal? There are a lot of good distortion pedals out there that can preserve the individual notes.
 
#3
Muse's bassist, Chris Wolstenholme, uses a multi-amp setup (some for effects, some for a clean tone). The best way to get that "Hysteria" sound on a budget is with a blend pedal and a good distortion or fuzz pedal. The blend pedal would allow you to get that bi-amping effect without actually having to own two amps and split the signal.

I should also point out he's using tube amps, which have a significant effect on the response and tone of the pedals he uses.

Which Boss distortion pedal do you own, BTW? If you're trying to push something hard like the ODB-3 (Bass Overdrive), it's going to sound bad and undefined, IMHO. You're almost definitely going to need to look into other options.
 
#4
Losing note definition is a common problem with using gain pedals on bass. Although seperate clean and distorted amps is ideal, it's generally not practical (or cost effective) for the average working musician. A good alternate option is use a pedal setup that blends the clean and distorted signals. Some pedals have this feature built in (PE Depth Charge, VoodooLabs Sparkle Drive - to name a couple), otherwise, putting the effect in a blendable loop will also do the trick. The Boss LS-2 (just one example) can serve as a loop blender.

Another note...start with a good sounding OD/distortion pedal (do a search for "distortion" for some reading on the subject). Many people find that Boss's OD/distortion pedals don't sound fantastic on bass (IMHO, YMMV, etc.) If you want to learn more about what Wolsentholme is using, do a search for "muse" - there has been plenty of discussion about it.
 
#5
I own and enjoy an ODB-3 Bass overdrive, but I pretty-much never use it alone. When it's part of my whole processing system, I get very good results - even at high-gain, heavy distortion with double-stops and chords - nice, clear and distinct (playing high-up - I can, for example, nicely simulate Hair Metal guitar chord-tone, even with the T.I. flat-wounds).

But - I'm driving it with another overdrive! For this purpose I'm using a GK Deisel Dawg pedal. The gain on this processor is relatively low - not-exactly 'light overdrive'; a little crunchy. This adds an appreciable amount of nice, musical overtones to the final composite sound. One of the tricks, though, is that I'm dumping-out lows, and boosting mids (for this use, it's set-up strictly as a 'pre-processor'; the Dawg sounds pretty bad by itself with this setting!).

ODB in-this-case is set: Level=9:30; Lows=1:00; Highs=11:30; Blend=9:15; Gain cranked.

Joe
 
#8
Dirty_G said:
Hi Guys.

I have a Boss Distortion pedal for my Bass actually its an overdrive where you can put the gain up on it and change it from a dry singal to a wet signal. I put the distortion on the Bass anyway but I am fidning that it seems to have a very hard time with people being able to distinguish individual notes. I played the Muse song Hysteria as part of our set and as far as I am concerned it came out as a big line of distortion. Is there a good way of making the notes sound individual?? :confused:
Click to expand...

fiddle with the balance knob? or maybe even the onboard EQ
 
#10
Crabby said:
cool vid Joe. You have a nice crunchy tone there. I was impressed with the GK pedal.
Click to expand...
Thanks -

Ah! What I should have thrown in-there is how BAD the 'Dawg sounds alone with that setting! Don't get me wrong, now: The Dawg has a variety of great tones - from very-light OD to a quite-metalish high-gain sound. But as an 'ODB pre-processor', as it is here, it's all nasally.

Together, though.. Oh Baby.

It still never ceases to amaze me, though - what a dramatic difference there is between how the D.D. handles single-stops, and harmonies. I think you can hear it well on this recording.

Joe
 
#13
Surly said:
...I never would have thought about combining 2 distortion pedals.
Click to expand...
Oh yes - like I said: this is pretty-much ALWAYS what's happening in the case of that much-coveted 'all-tube amp' sound. It's amazing how similar are almost all of the 'classic' tube-amp designs.

You'll find a class-A front-end - not just class-A, but one or more TRIODES in class-A. There's a distinct characteristic to the harmonic structure of a signal that's been amplified with either a FET (solid-state), or a triode (tube). One thing about this characteristic is that when you 'swing' a large signal through them ('push' them, you could say...), they exhibit definate distortion BEFORE they clip - much more-so than a transistor (solid-state) or a 'beam tube' (not a triode) - a certain 'nonlinear distortion'. (an issue that I'll not cover is the subject of 'feedback' topologies; this part of amp design also makes a difference in the tone)

These nonlinears create both more-'musically'-related harmonics, and 'intermods' or 'sum and difference frequencies'.

So - off this signal goes, continuing through an amp; heading toward the power amp stage...

The power amp stage of a classic design amp - I'm speaking now of 'push-pull' amps like Sunn, the SVTs, Showman, Twin, Marshall, some Mesas (not all, for sure - Mesa Boogie initially got most famous for avoiding the push-pull final stage; class-A pre's AND power sections!).

These Class-B - or 'push-pull' circuits - have their own distinct harmonic-generating characteristic, one different from class-A (also known as 'single-ended'). Not-only is push-pull so much different than single-ended, but almost all these power sections use Transistors (not FETs) or Beam tubes (not triodes).

The Diesel Dawg has asymmetric characteristics much like a classic pre section, and the ODB has symetric, push-pull sound.

Anyway: ..so cascaded distortion is the norm in 'real-life' - I mean when you're not 'simulating' the great amps with pedals.

Joe
 
#14
Surly said:
I never would have thought about combining 2 distortion pedals.
Click to expand...
I was doing an experimental Bass/Drum Drone project for a while. I used to combine a Proco Turbo Rat, Boss GEB-7, and a Colorsound Tonebender TC to create bowel loosening washes of Feedback. Granted, I have a very high powered rig, but at one rehearsel several people exited the room and were later complaining of dizzines and cramps...and I'm NOT kidding!!

Ahh....good times...:smug:
 
#15
Truthfully I do think about combining pedals..but it's hard to know what works well with what, etc. Not easy to buy everything online and try stuff..probably end up wasting money. Also I would say if your bass rocks people's stomachs then you did very good bro! :lol:
 
#19
LOL. Funny thing is when Joe jams with the Boss OBD-3 it really does sound pretty good... Although yes it sounds better with the 2nd effect. I was just on some other forums and noticed how people tend to bash the "popular" product even though it's tried and true.

Example; I am a muscle car nut. Years ago everyone loved the Flowmaster exhaust sound. Now they've become popular, and now more and more people bash Flowmaster frequently, call their products "junk", despise the tone, etc. Hmm...well they're the same products, and yes..same SOUND! Yes there are smaller companies making different products....OK I see a pattern forming here....I think I want a Boss OBD-3 pedal now...:)
 
#20
Surly said:
...I think I want a Boss OBD-3 pedal now...:)
Click to expand...
I was using the ODB with best-case material - short, distinct bursts (Jungle Love and Is She Really Going Out With Him). Where a lone, stock ODB falls is when you try playing longer, sustained notes. The ODB has a fairly wide range of 'awkwardness', where it's 'half-distorting' or whatever. I mean If you play a note and listen to it decay, You'll hear that solid sound that I got... for about ONE second, then the clipping harmonics start to dissipate in an uneven manner - you know: like 'sputter-out'.

One great fix for this is the Aphex Bass Xciter. If you put an Xciter BEFORE the ODB - at its INPUT jack - it really, really firms it up. Like I've said many other times "the Xciter transforms the ODB". A compressor works too, but increases noise much more than Aphex Big Bottom. (Keep in-mind that Big Bottom IS compression of-sorts, but it only operates in the low-end)

I s'pose another thing I should mention is that for high-gain distortion like this, the Boss NS-2 is flawless; it works completely-perfectly. That recording includes the NS-2, all the processing (in this case, only the D.D. and ODB) occuring IN THE LOOP; the pure bass going right to the NS-2 input.

I'll have to make some more recordings. With my full setup (add CS-3, CEB-3 and Xciter), I can run full, high-gain sustain - complete with singing infinite acoustic feedback (ala Robin Trower), with ZERO noise, at ALL, and devistating - yet controlled and solid - lows.

I can't help myself: I spend about half my 'practice time' messing with my processing!

Joe
 

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