• TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
    Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
    Join freeLog in
    Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.

DIY Angle Cab - what would you load it with?

I've padded out the cab a bit, and I've got it up to 46.6litres.. i was aiming for 50 but lost a little bit through the sleeve and amp ports.

The ports are an unusual arrangement, as I'd rather go wider with the cab than taller in a monitor kind of format, and the depth is kind of fixed by the depth of the amp unit, so they are at the top at the sides of the amp sleeve. The amp sleeve is 85mm gap, so the ports are 85mmx50mm each, 180mm depth according to fdeck calcs.

View attachment 535912 View attachment 535911 View attachment 535910

Designed for a B&C 12CL64 as suggested.

Is it worth squeezing that last bit of size out for 50L?

Link to 46.6 cab Invalid Link Removed

I'm missing the number for QL (box leakage losses). QL impacts the frequency response most intensive. I can reproduce a very similar response for QL>30. That means a very large number for QL but IMO this will not reflect the real world. Eminence has published tons of cab designs for QL=7. So I would never ever expect QL>15. IMO it is a good idea to set QL around 7..10 for the simulation of response, and than doing the fine tuning with the ears (if possible).

I suggest a tuning around 60..65Hz for the 12CL64. There is no need to extend Vb to 50L. The 12CL64 looks excellent for Vb 40..45L.

Keep in mind you have to subtract 2L off Vb due to the air volume occupied by the driver.
 
Last edited:
Suggestion for 46,6 litres
driver: B&C 12CL64

Vb: 44,6 litres (46,6 litres - 2 litres volume driver)
Fb: 61Hz
QL (leakage losses): 10

ports: 2
shape: rectangle
height: 8.5cm
width: 5.0cm
length: 8.3cm

Filling/Damping: minimal

F3 (response -3dB): 60Hz


Suggestion for QL=7

Vb: 44,6 litres (46,6 litres - 2 litres volume driver)
Fb: 64Hz
QL (leakage losses): 7

ports: 2
shape: rectangle
height: 8.5cm
width: 5.0cm
length: 6.9cm

Filling/Damping: minimal

F3 (response -3dB): 63Hz


For completeness of contents
If QL was set to 100 (which is not a practical number)
Fb: 54Hz
F3: 54Hz


A rule of thumb to approximate a number for QL:
Vb<40 litres: QL=3..5
40 litres < Vb < 100 litres: QL=7
Vb > 100 litres: QL=10

------------------------------------
Hope that helps :)
 
Last edited:
Where does leakage loss come from? Is it affected at all by cabinet design or construction?
Apologies that you are right I had not subtracted the interval volume lost to the driver
 
My understanding (having read up quite a bit while dithering on actually getting started with my build) is that the port is "not" considered part of the box - if internal, it (like the speaker cone/magnet/bracing) is deducted from the overall internal volume.

I sometimes amuse myself with visions of external cab ports rising from the top like exhaust pipes (but it would be annoying to carry, or need to be easily broken down for transport.)
3965_1_lg.jpg

The exhaust pipe / stacks set up would go well with my idea of cabs fronted by a '32 grill shell on top and '33 grill shell on the bottom of the stack.

:cool:
 
  • Like
Reactions: T_Bone_TL
Where does leakage loss come from? Is it affected at all by cabinet design or construction?
Apologies that you are right I had not subtracted the interval volume lost to the driver
There are many influancing variables such as losses in the speaker itself and the Helmhotz Resonator itself, losses due to the design and the construction and craftsmanship as well.

IMO you are in the ballpark for a realistic vented cab design with QL=7.
If the actual reponse of a cab does not fit the predicted response then there is need to retune the cab (slightly). It's a kind of trial and error because the response (or QL) can not be examined (or measured) unless the cab is already built.
 
Last edited:
Okay, so I will try craft a method to remove and refit the piece that constructs the vents to allow me to change the length. Without meaning to sound pretentious I am planning to glue, possibly rebate (at least the main edges of the box) and probably use a couple of layers of Tuffcab or similar thick coating so I'm imagining it will be towards the airtight end compared to lap joints / carpet covered, at least.
 
Okay, so I will try craft a method to remove and refit the piece that constructs the vents to allow me to change the length.

What usually works best is to set up the "port shelf" shorter than expected and such that you can add to it, rather than trying to make the whole panel removable (which would be a trick, even for temporary construction to test the frequency.) I've been mulling how to make that work with your overall design without significantly altering it. The best I've come up with so far is to make the cut-away part of the port opening just a little bit wider, so you have a little bit of the edge of the amp-pocket side board exposed. On the outside wall, I'd glue on something like a popsicle stick (thin strip of wood)in the same position, so you have a couple of 1/8" (3mm) edges to land "port shelf extensions" on. Test, pop out the speaker, tape in an extension, pop in the speaker, test, repeat. When you get where you want to be, pop out the speaker, remove the tape, add glue, and permanently affix the extension.

You MIGHT not need the strip on the outside to make this work.

Alternate thought that just came to me - the shelf extensions could just have a thin strip of wood on the back of them that extended over the bottom of the amp-pocket part of the board.

Oh - I guess nobody ever said - follow the "non-commercial" link in fdeck's signature and the excel spreadsheet is there.
 
Last edited:
I think if I can keep the front of the port panel one piece, so make the short fronts part of the same piece to keep the front edge strong, I can probably make an interchangeable piece that fits in behind - then fill the joints - or we have a table router at work, I might be able to make piece that pulls out the front and fits in some routed channels from the front or something. I'll have a think about it.. (coming from a theatre/live event design background, practical solutions to the impossible/illusion design are a big part of my day job)
 
Sure, I'd be interested in the Python version. Other than amusing antiques like PL/I it's the language I've most recently done much of any sort of programming in, so there MIGHT be a hope in heck. I'm a travesty to my BSCS, but that's life.

WRT WinISD .vs. your program and the transfer function-ish bit, they have the transfer function (which they normalize to 0dB out in the flatland section) and then they have the SPL graph that responds to what you enter for the wattage in the signal section (as your cone excursion and port airspeed graphs do) so it was a bit counterintuitive that your dB SPL graph didn't change when I changed the input wattage; that's all the issue there might be from my POV, anyway. At 1W, my box models to a bit below 100dB in WinISD, too. It is nice to have the "input sensitive" version if only for the "so how loud can THIS box get with THIS amp?" questions, though otherwise they are basically the same graph. And, of course, courtesy Randall Munroe's xkcd (and there are others on the Python theme):
Python is currently my favorite language. I find that I can be extremely productive with it. I'll put my program up on my little web page, Real Soon Now. ;) It will be in source code form, which is my favorite way of sharing software. So you'll have to install Python and maybe one or two other packages such as MatPlotLib. I still use C (straight ANSI, none of this ++ or # stuff) for microcontrollers.

Amusingly, PL/1 was taught in colleges in my area when I was in school, because the auto industry used it. A few years later, everybody switched to Pascal. I was dead certain that Pascal would win out over C.

I think that some improved annotations on my graphs would clear things up for the plots. Also, my program typically reads about 2 dB higher than WinISD because of the convention that I chose for converting 1 Watt into an equivalent voltage.

Edit: I added a graph for sensitivity at the amplifier power entered into the user inputs.

Not to try and be a scrounger but is the spreadsheet version hosted anywhere? I did wonder as I was using the online version that I could create a spreadsheet version to do the maths and graph it, and allow to save and compare different drivers easier as well - but I'd have to look up what all the maths was - and spreadsheets are pretty cross platform, even people on macs have a reasonable chance of having MS office.
It's at my noncommercial web page: Invalid Link Removed

It's Excel with a Visual Basic macro, so you will get alarm bells from Excel if you try to download it. As with any such content, good computer hygiene suggests actually looking at the source code before enabling macros, even if you think that you trust the author. And if you save it in a newer Excel version, you have to use the .XLSM extension. I wrote it using Excel 97, which served me for more than a decade!

I'm missing the number for QL (box leakage losses). QL impacts the frequency response most intensive. I can reproduce a very similar response for QL>30. That means a very large number for QL but IMO this will not reflect the real world. Eminence has published tons of cab designs for QL=7. So I would never ever expect QL>15. IMO it is a good idea to set QL around 7..10 for the simulation of response, and than doing the fine tuning with the ears (if possible).

I suggest a tuning around 60..65Hz for the 12CL64. There is no need to extend Vb to 50L. The 12CL64 looks excellent for Vb 40..45L.

Keep in mind you have to subtract 2L off Vb due to the air volume occupied by the driver.
I'll add some code to simulate a separate Q value for the port. In fact, it's in my Python program, but I removed it from the Javascript version just to get myself going quicker. A huge advantage of Python is that it handles complex numbers inherently, so all of the formulas are simpler. There may be a Javascript complex arithmetic library that I can add. And yes, good point about subtracting the driver volume.
 
Last edited:
note that a side effect of the updates to @fdeck 's program is a change in the port calculation (with somewhat closer agreement to WinISD - I think he added in the "end correction", if I recall correctly that wasn't there before) so port lengths generated from that (earlier) might want to be rechecked. But as always, the main approach to modeling .vs. reality on port length is to make it tunable in practice and check that as built, rather than depending too much on the models, as we've already discussed.
 
You could reinvent the wheel or you could look at existing designs that have done all the hard work of speaker selection, cab design and tuning for you, such as Bill Fitzmaurice. There are several sizes of monitor plans available in both horn loaded and reflex designs. I built two of the Wedgehorn 8s as vocal monitors and they are great at what they do, but the beta 8s that are in them aren't capable of going much below 100hz in those enclosures so they don't do bass...apparently the larger 10" version can. If you're not wedded to monitor style cabs, there are also simplex and jack models that might appeal
+1. OP, you should look into this, posted just this morning:
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]
 
note that a side effect of the updates to @fdeck 's program is a change in the port calculation (with somewhat closer agreement to WinISD - I think he added in the "end correction", if I recall correctly that wasn't there before) so port lengths generated from that (earlier) might want to be rechecked. But as always, the main approach to modeling .vs. reality on port length is to make it tunable in practice and check that as built, rather than depending too much on the models, as we've already discussed.
Thanks for pointing that out. I did add the end correction, and also a note in my FAQ about leaving space in your design for measuring the tuning frequency and adjusting the port length.

My recipe for rectangular ports is to compute the end correction from the lesser of the width or height of the port. And shelf ports that run along a wall are their own beast, for which I have no formula.
 
  • Like
Reactions: T_Bone_TL