diy Kappalite3015+midrange

[greenboy]

Honestly, I've tried a lot of cabinets and not a lot out there can compare to a 3015 and a horn in a well built box Nothing under a grand.

You actually have a cab with a medium-format low-crossed horn and a 3015, then?

If you're using a horn too, the ECS-3X would probably be a good choice, but isn't it kind of a bad choice for a 2-way design?

Please recognize the context the Peavey crossover was mentioned within: as a ready-built design with less flaws, and not as a solution for a two-way design.

 

[rpsands]

Well, I wasn't telling you to do it so much as throwing it up there. The 3015 is beaming by 1200hz but it's got solid content up to 2500hz or so when it rolls off. if you say, high passed a decent horn at 2500hz or that neighborhood you'd have fairly flat on-axis response (well, barring the peaks of the horn) and an off-axis valley but solid off-axis up to 1200hz and them again above 2500hz. Which is far better than most bass cabs but definitely not optimal. Most bass cabs are crossed at 3.5 to 5khz.

I would stick to the mid driver if you can get a good crossover sorted out and don't mind the hand-wiring and experimenting, but if you're going to pay some 3rd party to design a crossover for you, well, I think it would be better to either:
1- use a stock Em 800hz crossover (fine for the 3015)
2- just use a horn

The 3015 has pretty acceptable solo performance so I don't think it would be the end of the world to use it without a mid driver - still better than almost any cabinet out there.

 

[greenboy]

Thanks i'm suprised, everybody is looking for a smooth frequency plot, and you are telling to skip the mid driver

Better than getting a smooth frequency plot which is only a limited on-axis representation... is to have frequency plots off-axis that do better. After all, more listening area is represented by that, and that's mainly what interacts with the room.

And tonally - especially of you do overdrive and distortion - the small-format cone midrange in a decent chamber of its own, really can sound incredible. To do the the lower-reacing horn thing well, you really need to invest a lot more time in crossover.

 

[rpsands]

You actually have a cab with a medium format low-crossed horn and a 3015, then?

Please recognize the context the Peavey crossover was mentioned within: as a ready-built design with less flaws, and not as a solution for a two-way design.

No, but I have heard a 3015 by itself and I think I can ballpark what a 2500hz crossed horn would sound like in my head based off experience.

Yeah I gotcha

 

[qts]

Hey guys, this is were the storry starts, the sound on paper or in real life , you discus this manny times.
What i want, is a cab with smooth lows (not heavy or sub) reasonable mids and specialy NO humps in the low/mids in a small cab.
This is what the KL3015 provides

 

[will33]

Hey guys, this is were the storry starts, the sound on paper or in real life , you discus this manny times.
What i want, is a cab with smooth lows (not heavy or sub) reasonable mids and specialy NO humps in the low/mids in a small cab.
This is what the KL3015 provides

2.5 cu.ft. isn't going to get you that without a low tuning, too low to get what that driver is capable of. A bit bigger box will get the smooth lows, no hump sound and do it with power and authority.

These guys know what they're doing as far as crossovers are concerned but keep in mind that at "parity" your cab will sound a good bit middier (also clearer) than most commercial offerings you've heard because they just don't have it off axis, which is where your ears and most of your audiences ears are most of the time.

Another thing to consider seeing as small is a goal....are you a plug-n-play guy or do you like a little bigger rack with preamp, pwr. amp, x-over, 31-band eq and a couple other goodies. If aesthetics are a concern, make the width and depth match your rack and adjust height for needed internal space.

 

[4Mal]

More often than not, the passive crossover is an entirely different world. Component (include the drivers in that) interaction/reactance, resonance transferal... entirely different than active crossover / power amp combination which doesn't care a whole lot about these factors. Anyway, because of the many interactions, and the need to keep impedance curves in the safe zone, what works for active cross points may not even be practical with a passive. Let alone the difference in having easy deep slopes with actives, usually at least BW18 or LR24.

another good argument for a nice bi-ampable head / rig ... figure I'm preaching to the choir there though ...

 

[4Mal]

2.5 cu.ft. isn't going to get you that without a low tuning, too low to get what that driver is capable of. A bit bigger box will get the smooth lows, no hump sound and do it with power and authority.

These guys know what they're doing as far as crossovers are concerned but keep in mind that at "parity" your cab will sound a good bit middier (also clearer) than most commercial offerings you've heard because they just don't have it off axis, which is where your ears and most of your audiences ears are most of the time.

Another thing to consider seeing as small is a goal....are you a plug-n-play guy or do you like a little bigger rack with preamp, pwr. amp, x-over, 31-band eq and a couple other goodies. If aesthetics are a concern, make the width and depth match your rack and adjust height for needed internal space.

acutally in about 2.6 tuned in the 50's you get a very smooth roll off. The important thing there is that as you bring up the lows via EQ, they come up smoothly.

I did pretty extensive comparison with my smaller cab and one somewhat larger based on the TL606 with some 3015 friendly mods. My smaller design smoked the larger cab when it came to a smooth low end. The larger cab was louder overall but the low end had a pretty big hump in the 50 to 65 area that was not at all EQ friendly... I'm a Bag End guy as well so that may skew my views on this. I was looking for something much like an S15D but with a deeper extension. pretty mich what I got...

 

[Passinwind]

I did pretty extensive comparison with my smaller cab and one somewhat larger based on the TL606 with some 3015 friendly mods. My smaller design smoked the larger cab when it came to a smooth low end. The larger cab was louder overall but the low end had a pretty big hump in the 50 to 65 area that was not at all EQ friendly... I'm a Bag End guy as well so that may skew my views on this. I was looking for something much like an S15D but with a deeper extension. pretty much what I got...

Mal,

FWIW, we could check the actual tuning on that 606 cab sometime. It's quite possible that the owner could tweak things for the better (or more toward your taste anyway) with minimal effort.

 

[qts]

It "sounds" good to my ears as "to me" the perfect cab which is relative small sized, but with smooth lows i can cranck up with EQing except to be busy with reducing humps at important freqs for a 4string player.

Also the 3015 has the mids in a good way as will33 mentioned.
So i think i don't need a midrange

4Mall, what does your B&C middriver contribute to the 3015 then?

I will go for the 2.6cft net. @50HZ

 

[4Mal]

Mal,

FWIW, we could check the actual tuning on that 606 cab sometime. It's quite possible that the owner could tweak things for the better (or more toward your taste anyway) with minimal effort.

I suspect that if we dialed that cab in to my taste, the owner would then want to undo the mods . I think he and I are looking for different ...

 

[4Mal]

Also the 3015 has the mids in a good way as will33 mentioned.
So i think i don't need a midrange

Tastes vary - having compared the 3015 bar and withthe B&C - no way I'm going back. it's night and day differnt and much, much smoother to my ear. YMMV and all that ...

4Mall, what does your B&C middriver contribute to the 3015 then?

the 3015 is real peaky somewhere up above 1000 - mid's it has. they are quite harsh however... the B&C is 'sweet'. Best work for it. it's just darned sweet on the top! So you get that and you get to keep the 3015 out of a frequency range where it does not (in my opinion) shine...

I will go for the 2.6cft net. @50HZ

I might be inclined to try 2.6 (net after driver & mid chamber) tuned @45 ...

Note that as of current, I have 2 3015's - bare - and I run the B&C on a test jig on top. If I get what I think I will from the 12+6, my 3015 + 6.5 project will probably die on the vine.

 

[SeismicAssault]

I'm using 1 B&C 6.5 (about $90 from Parts Express IIRC) and it will easily keep up with 2 3015's. it's a really nice sounding driver. there is an old adage in the bass world that goes something like 'your tone is all about your mids'... It is very true and so your mnid driver is not a place to cheap out IMO. Basically it costs another $40 to get close to the top shelf...

Sealed chamber is the way to go. Study the plan of the fEarful 12+6. Note the mid speaker baffle brace. That forms the bottom of the mid chamber. the top is formed by a tight fit against the top of the cab. Then you need the side and back. It's way easy. Just cut a strip 3" wide and as long as the baffle is wide + 7 & 7/8. Out of that, cut off a strip of 7.75. That is your side piece, the remainder is your mid brace/mid chamber bottom.

Now you need a piece 8 " square for the back. Drill as small a hole as will accomodate the speaker wire to the mid.
.

4Mal, so you're saying for the B&C 6.5, I'd just need to make a 3"x7.75"x7.75" (180.2 cubic inch) sealed chamber, and this will function well? I'm thinking of adding this to a TL606-based 3015 cabinet I'm building.

 

[will33]

Also the 3015 has the mids in a good way as will33 mentioned.
So i think i don't need a midrange

What I was trying to say there, perhaps not so well, is that when crossing to a mid, choosing one that runs at similair spl as the woofer will result in you hearing a lot of sound you're not used to hearing in a typical bass cab which loses that stuff off axis, some even have a pretty big hole on axis. The 3015 does keep response up into the midrange (on paper anyway) but only if your centered on the speaker. It'll have the same off-axis problems as any other 15".

It may sound better to some players ears if the mids output isn't quite as high as the woofer. Keeps from boosting bass/cutting higher stuff to get back to the sound they want. It makes more sense to me to use the stronger mid driver so you have that available when you need it and pad it back some if you don't.

That leads to another question if I can figure out the double quote thing.....


From GB -- "I'd rather "voice" with EQ after the fact and don't trust variable L-pads for beans until you get to the tweeter range where for electric bass especially it doesn't matter much."


What don't you trust? Is it sort of a perfectionist "I can make it better" type of thing or is there a real danger of impedance dipping too low or lack of power handling/burning up or something? You may be shooting a hole in one of my hair-brained ideas here.

 

[4Mal]

4Mal, so you're saying for the B&C 6.5, I'd just need to make a 3"x7.75"x7.75" (180.2 cubic inch) sealed chamber, and this will function well? I'm thinking of adding this to a TL606-based 3015 cabinet I'm building.

Pretty much, yeah. That aspect of the fEarful design is really, really cool! As I expected, my 3015 & 6.5 project died. The low end on tap with the 3012LF just overwhelmes the 3015 and honestly running the 3015 full range after hearing it with the crossover flter out the upper mids - points out how harsh it can be as well.

I really used to be convinced that I loved the sound of bare drivers rolling off. The old JBL D140, the 3015... not now... Not by a long shot. Exposure to the fEarful thing has really changed what I want to hear from a cab ...

 

[jnewmark]

Pretty much, yeah. That aspect of the fEarful design is really, really cool! As I expected, my 3015 & 6.5 project died. The low end on tap with the 3012LF just overwhelmes the 3015 and honestly running the 3015 full range after hearing it with the crossover flter out the upper mids - points out how harsh it can be as well.

I really used to be convinced that I loved the sound of bare drivers rolling off. The old JBL D140, the 3015... not now... Not by a long shot. Exposure to the fEarful thing has really changed what I want to hear from a cab ...

Don't know if it's been discussed yet, or even pertains to what you guys are talking about, but, per the 3015 and mid range cab-- greenboy has suggested that the 3015 is a real good retro fit for the Carvin 3 way LS1503, and many who have done this rave about how it cleans up that huge mid bass hump the stock 15 has. And it seems to interact with the mid range pretty good also, from what others have said.

 

[will33]

acutally in about 2.6 tuned in the 50's you get a very smooth roll off. The important thing there is that as you bring up the lows via EQ, they come up smoothly.

I did pretty extensive comparison with my smaller cab and one somewhat larger based on the TL606 with some 3015 friendly mods. My smaller design smoked the larger cab when it came to a smooth low end. The larger cab was louder overall but the low end had a pretty big hump in the 50 to 65 area that was not at all EQ friendly... I'm a Bag End guy as well so that may skew my views on this. I was looking for something much like an S15D but with a deeper extension. pretty mich what I got...

I must not be looking at something right. According to eminence's cab suggestions, 2.5 cu.ft tuned for a smooth rolloff gives an f3 of 65hz. Seems high to me for a ported bass cab. To push the f3 down close to 50hz requires a whopping 4.8 cu.ft., that's a big cab. I'm thinking something like 3.25 or 3.5 or so would give ample bottom without becoming too big.