DNA bass rig vs EDEN bass rig

[road-cat1]

DNA VS EDEN

In my musical lifetime, I have owned or played through the majority of every brand of bass amplifier and speakers. I started with the Fender Bassman amp, graduated to the Showman series, then KUSTOM (3 -15" JBL), Ampeg and so on. (Even spent some time with an Alembic pre-amp, Crown power amp and bag-end speaker cabinets.) I have been fortunate enough to have made my living in music. I graduated from Indiana University, moved back to my home town (Chicago) and made great connections. (It's all about WHO you know!) I did my share of bar bands, wedding bands, but finally connected with the right people to get me in the door playing sessions for jingles (radio/TV ads). I had 10 years of sessions (about 3,000) and played on movie sound tracks for HBO, industrial films and everything musical that is recorded. I also started playing Broadways shows and worked full time in the orchestra pits of several theaters. For 17 years, I was out "on the road" touring with Broadway shows until about 7 years ago. Lately I have been backing up shows that come to the Phoenix area as well as playing shorter tours with different types of acts. I only tell you about my background to strengthen my credibility in the following review.

I started using EDEN bass amplifiers in the early 1990's. The Traveler 400 is still one of the best amplifiers I have played through. For quite a few years I have been using an EDEN POWERED NAVIGATOR amplifier. It features the legendary Navigator Pre-amp mated to 2 digital switching power amps that are each rated at 500 watts @ 4 ohms. As long as you have a 4 ohm load for each output channel, you will get around 1000 watts of output power. My typical setup consists of an EDEN 2-10 (I have both the XLT and the XST cabinets that I use when I want 4-10's) and an EDEN 1-15 T bottom or Aguilar 1-15. All of the EDEN cabinets that I own are 8 ohms. That means that the 2-10 cabinet will get about 250-300 watts and the 1-15 bottom will get 250-300 watts. You can NOT bridge the amplifier (wish you could)…but it is still about 500-600 respectable watts for a total bass system. The Powered Navigator amplifier and all of my speaker cabinets are USA made unlike the current or recent ones. It is my understanding that the decision to have the EDEN amplifiers and speakers made in China by the company that bought EDEN, was not one that the designer and original owner was in favor of and one of the reasons that he is no longer with his own company.

Enter the DNA brand. It stands for "David Nordschow Amplifiers". I spoke with David to get more information about the amplifier and cabinets that are newly designed by him and made in the USA. The 1350 Amplifier is stated as having 1350 watts into 4 ohms. After discussing the best speaker cabinets for my needs, I decided on staying with the 2 cabinet arrangement that I have been using for years. I purchased a DNA 2-10 cabinet with tweeter (8 ohm) and a 1-15 cabinet (8 ohm). By the way, the 1-15 DNA speaker cabinet that I have has a horn tweeter and has a NEO magnet so it is surprisingly light weight. The cabinet has the carpeted surfaces with the tweeter control in the front. This makes a lot of sense for those of us that have tried to get our hand behind the cabinet of most brands of bass cabinets to adjust the attenuator. The carry handles on the cabinets are located along the top edge of the sides. I haven't really decided whether I like that position or not….it doesn't bother me, but I am used to having the handles located further down towards the middle. And, as far as getting "picky"….the DNA logo on the amplifier doesn't have enough contrast to stand out. It ends up looking like a gold colored "splotch" from a distance. I hope that David re-designs the amplifier logo for future equipment.

HOW DOES THE DNA EQUIPMENT COMPARE TO THE EDEN

This ended up being a LOT more difficult than I imagined it would be. BOTH bass rigs sound GREAT but different. The EDEN has a more "sterile" sound. It is a very precise sound that reminds me of listening to a bass through headphones. While it does have a tube in the pre-amp, it never loses it's clinically precise sound unless you purposely overdrive the front end. I did use 4 of my bass guitars to get a fair assessment. I used a Fender 5 string P bass (USA), Fender 5 string deluxe Jazz Bass (USA), a Sadowsky 5 string Will Lee model and a Musicman Sterling 5 string. The DNA system sounded more "open" and more "tube-like" even though there is NO tube in the pre-amp section. Standing approximately 15-20 feet away from the front of each rig was a revelation. The EDEN was like a beam of sound aiming at you. The DNA seemed to give the illusion that your bass was coming from a huge area almost surrounding you. It is a thicker, warmer sound with more weight even with all attempts at staying at near flat settings. I set the EDEN to my normal tone settings and tweaked the DNA to come as close to "my sound" that I have gotten used to. I did not want to vary too much from flat settings for fear of grossly changing the character of the sound. To be fair, the output really is twice as much as the EDEN with my speaker cabinets (8 ohm), so some of those qualities may be attributed to having more power. If I had 2 cabinets that were each 4 ohm I would technically be able to get 1000 watts out of the EDEN Navigator amplifier instead of 500-600.

Another interesting thing was the quietness of the DNA amp. Many/most bass amplifiers have a noise floor that is hopefully overcome by your playing levels. The DNA amp was so quiet, that you need to put your ear close to the speaker to even hear the tiniest amount of running hiss. This is reminiscent of high end power amplifiers that you might use in a studio or high-end home audio system. The EDEN rig had a louder running "hiss" sound, but still quieter than some of the other amps I have used.

I found that the "enhance" control on the EDEN amp and the "shape" control of the DNA amp shared many of the same qualities. While the "tweaker" in me likes having the parametric control of the EDEN amp, the DNA does seem to place the bass, low mid, high mid and treble "q" points at about the same points that I typically use on the EDEN. On the positive side, it lets you quickly dial in your sound and not spend a lot of your time twiddling with the parametric settings. The high frequencies from the horn tweeter seem to peak at a bit lower point than the EDEN cabinets. Strictly as an intuitive guess, I would say that the EDEN has a treble peak with the tweeter at a "0" level at around 4-6k and the DNA seems a bit lower, maybe 2-3k. At first I thought that maybe the EDEN tweeter sounded more articulate, but after further playing through both systems for an extended period of time, I think that I may have second thoughts. I will find out soon enough how it performs in live situations. My intuition is that the treble "q" of the tweeter may have been placed at a slightly lower point for a reason.

I would be happy playing through either of these rigs but feel that the DNA rig will serve me well. I will get to really put it through its paces on some short tours that I will be playing very soon. I will report back to this forum on how it sounded on stage in theaters seating of 1500-2000 people. I had read some conflicting and confusing postings on Talkbass about the DNA brand and whether it really was in production and available. Just know that the DNA brand is alive and well (and made in America). I also have ACME B-2 cabinets I tried with the DNA 1350. While it made the speakers sound as good as I have heard them sound, I still preferred the openness and clarity of the DNA speaker cabinets. I have also heard the DNA speakers compared (on Youtube) with Bergantino bass cabinets and the DNA seemed to edge those out slightly too. If you have any questions, please contact me through this forum posting.

 

[road-cat1]

Here is a recent shot of a concert that I played with a Creedence Clearwater Revival show out of Seattle. In this set-up I was using an Aguilar 1-15 bottom instead of the EDEN. I recently bought the Aguilar used and wanted to try it out in a concert setting.

 

[chaosMK]

Thanks for posting this I have been curious about DNA.

 

[road-cat1]

I know that I have read some posts that speculated that the company went out of business, etc. I have been waiting and watching since I first heard about David's new product line. I think that he came out with speakers first for a year or two before he produced his amplifier. I remember seeing something from the NAMM show about a HELIX amp that looks identical (pretty much) to the 1350 that I bought. The HELIX stated 1200 watts of power. He must have tweaked that design and renamed it.

 

[12bass]

Thanks for the comparison!

Idle hiss was an issue with the earlier US-made Eden World Tour models. I actually changed the gain staging in my WT-500 to bring it down to a reasonable level. More recent WT-800C units have been redesigned internally and are much quieter at idle; they also use normal voltage regulators for the preamp supply, eliminating a point of failure in the older design.

With regard to your evaluation, perhaps you might compare how each amplifier sounds when using the other cabinets? This would help to illustrate how much of the difference is in the heads and how much is the sound of the speakers. Also, it might be worthwhile to compare the old WT-400 as well, just to see how much difference the class D power section makes.

 

[road-cat1]

fatastic suggestion. NOW, you have given me a project for tomorrow !!!!

 

[yousaiditman]

+1 on DNA Cabs

Thanks road-cat1 for the outstanding review. I have been playing through DNA cabs for a couple of years, first the 410, then the 210 and now 2-112C's paired with an Orange Terror Bass 1000. Love the power, portability and tone of this setup, and I continue to get nothing but complements on this rig.

 

[road-cat1]

I was tempted to try out a pair of 112 cabs, but I have not played through 12" speakers for most of my musical career. I listened to a couple of Youtube demos of the DNA 112 speakers against Bergantino and Aguilar. While the guy in the video did not "say" what his opinions were, it was pretty evident in the videos that the DNA totally shined against the others. The 112 cabs would have been easier for me to transport.....hmmmm, maybe in the future.

 

[road-cat1]

In response to 12bass, I am going to try swapping the heads so that the DNA is powering the EDEN speakers and vice versa today. I will report back with my assessment on WHICH variable has the greater change in sound. Your suggestion is great and that is on my list for today. (I will also try my OLD Traveler 400 with the DNA speakers ) If I REALLY have time, I also have an Ampeg PF800 head that may get thrown into the comparison match.

 

[road-cat1]

As requested.......I swapped the EDEN NAVIGATOR amp and the DNA amp so that they powered each other's speaker cabinets. I think that the results pretty much mirrored what my instinct was on this project. The DNA SPEAKERS were the major change in the equation. Using the EDEN Navigator amp through the DNA speakers presented a sound that was more similar to it being powered by the DNA amp. The difference in the output power was probably the reason for seeming to have a bit less depth and dynamics. However, I am talking about very small degrees here. I would be fine playing a gig with the DNA speakers powered by the Navigator head. The EDEN Navigator head that I used did have a bit more "running hiss" but it was never heard with the volume levels I tested it at. The DNA AMP through the EDEN speakers really presented a very similar sound to what I have become used to for the many years I have played through the EDEN. Double the amount of power and a lower noise floor really makes the signal "pop" however. SO, the end conclusion is that the DNA speakers are mostly responsible for the change in character that I mentioned in my previous posting. The sound is a bit darker and thicker (more authority) and the high frequencies (for popping/slapping) seems a bit edgier at a slightly lower frequency that I have gotten used to with the EDEN. The EDEN speakers may sound a bit more "silky" or transparent than the DNA. The DNA reminds me slight ly of the weight and authority the Ampeg SVT system has.

 

[road-cat1]

The last experiment for today was trying a vintage EDEN TRAVELER PLUS (400 or so watts into 4 ohm load). I played it through the DNA speakers in order to take advantage of the full power that the Traveler could deliver. I was REALLY surprised at how great it sounded. I don't know what differences the digital power supply presents compared to the traditional power supply of the 1990 era. The noise floor on my particular Traveler Plus amp is near silent. It is even quieter than the DNA amplifier (and that is very quiet). I literally could NOT tell that it was running until I played a note. Out of the total silence my sound seemed pounce at me. The signal to noise ratio beats the everything else I own (Ampeg, Fender, etc.). I can tweak the tone settings to duplicate the sound I have gotten used to for many years. It still produces stellar sound. In a real gigging situation, the volume levels and extended playing would cause the fan to turn on or increase and I did not play it long enough or loud enough to stress it out. I have enjoyed using the Navigator amp for many years because it has allowed me to balance my 1-15 bottom with the 2-10 top and sometimes I would back off the 1-15 bottom ever-so-slightly. Other amps would not allow me to do that. Also with the combination of the bass, treble and 3 bands of parametric controls (plus the enhance control), I can find ANY sound I need.

 

[Low Class]

Thanks for the review!! I was thinking about a DNA head in the future, but I think now I may have to get the DNA cabs in the very near future.

 

[AMp'D.2play]

Very nice review! I'm the happy owner of a pair of DNA 15s. The 1st one I purchased used to pair w/ my SWR Goliath Jr. 210 for more oomph but w/o a lot of weight. I liked it so much I sold the SWR and bought a new DNA 115 to go with it! GK MB800 is usually hooked up to them. Stacked, the DNA pair has a bigger footprint than my Berg HD112 pair, but the weights are about the same.

As for the handles, I'm not crazy about them, but they are where they are. I don't get as much leverage moving them around since I can't get "underneath" them like if they had side handles. For what they weigh, it's not a major problem. If they were 10 or so lbs heavier, they'd start being a problem for my bad back.

Resale value would probably be less than a more well-known brand like Bergantino or Aguilar, but mine aren't going anywhere any time soon, anyway.

 

[road-cat1]

The DNA speakers would make the greatest change in your bass system. Since the speaker system consists of physical moving parts ( ), the personality from one brand to another is more differennt than changes in amplifiers, in my opinion. The DNA is a great amp and will give you lots of power and versatility, but if your funds are limited the speakers are the place to put your bucks.

 

[MuthaFunk]

The DNA speakers would make the greatest change in your bass system. Since the speaker system consists of physical moving parts ( ), the personality from one brand to another is more differennt than changes in amplifiers, in my opinion. The DNA is a great amp and will give you lots of power and versatility, but if your funds are limited the speakers are the place to put your bucks.

+1 especially with all the selection of affordable big power available today like GK MB800, Ampeg PF800, and although not super affordable even Markbass LMT 800.

 

[road-cat1]

The DNA amplifier, in my opinion, has used really high quality parts and produces around 1350 watts @ 4 ohms (as stated). There are not many amp heads that can produce that much power cleanly with the ability to shape your sound from a "clean slate" (flat response). If you have ever recorded your bass through a D.I. box and listened back to the real sound of your bass without being altered by the personality of any brand's electronics and signature speaker sound, that is what I was hearing through the DNA bass amp head. Other high quality amp heads seem to be faithful to the sound of your bass but not with the power and flexibility I found with the DNA. I have an AMPEG PF800 head and it is great at giving me the "AMPEG" sound that I sometimes crave or need for a particular gig. However, it really does have it's own signature. I can NOT get what I consider a faithfully true "flat" sound from the Ampeg head. I have owned Genz-Benz streamliner and the shuttlemax 9.2 both and have sold them. They were a bit TOO sterile sounding to me and the Streamliner, while having a thicker and warmer sound, did not give me the flexibility that I wanted. I have never played through a Mark Bass or the newer GK heads. I owned an older model GK that was great at some things, but really did have a "signature" sound...and not totally faithful. I also have a "back-up" amp that I have the transport company include with my gear. That amp is a Carvin BX1500. I know that Carvin is a bit of an "underdog" because it is direct sale only and doesn't benefit from the advertising and availability through dealers and online music sellers (Musician's Friend, Music 123, Zzounds, Sweetwater, etc.) However, I have found that the Carvin is actually a great amp too. I have opened it up because I had a problem with the input jack. They sent me a replacement part instead of shipping the amp back to them. The internal parts are NOT the highest quality, in my opinion, but the amp actually sounds good and is REALLY flexible with the combination of the standard bass, mid, treble, contour plus parametric eq and graphic eq, tube or tube bypass.....if you are really on a budget, that might be a way to go ($500 for a 1500 watt amp head). Sorry for a really LONG response to TB'er "Lowclass". If you were on a tight budget, you might consider DNA speakers and the Carvin head until you have more $$$ for the DNA head.

 

[CrUiSeR]

Nice review. Which of the DNA cabs would you consider to be the better standalone?

 

[road-cat1]

I have heard that the 1-12 cabinet (2 of em if your budget allows) is really popular. I did not hear or play through the 1-12. Of the 2 bottoms that I bought, the 1-15 alone would give more of the "old school" Ampeg B-15 type of full deep sound and the tweeter can be adjusted for more high-end if wanted. I played a small gig the other night and used the 1-15 alone with the DNA head. It worked out great but it was a big band jazz gig. In my opinion, the 2-10 speaker cabinet alone would cover more ground in regards to versatility. It has a lot more definition and with some bass boost on the amp, can still cover the low end really well. Sorry for a long answer. If you are playing more current music material, I would probably give the nod to the 2-10. If you are playing motown, r/b, etc...I would use the 1-15 as a standalone.

 

[road-cat1]

This is great shootout video on YOUTUBE of 1-12 cabinets to compare DNA with Begantino and Aguilar.



Found these YOUTUBE comparisons of the DNA speakers with Aguilar

 

[dukeorock]

This is great shootout video on YOUTUBE of 1-12 cabinets to compare DNA with Begantino and Aguilar.



Found these YOUTUBE comparisons of the DNA speakers with Aguilar

Thanks for posting these clips! It does show differences for sure and the DNA came out well ahead, IMO, of the the cabs it went up against. Also confirms my dislike of those little Aggies! Personally, there are at least 3 12" based cabs (from 3 different companies) I'd pick over any of these cabs, but the DNA sounded pretty darn good