Do 4 string basses sound different than 5 string basses?

[bucephylus]

Just wondering...what can you do on a 4 string that you can't on a 5?

First off, let’s not get parochial about it. We’re all bass players, right?

More generally, there are numerous ways of looking at the 4 and 5 thing. I personally use both and have no axe to grind either way.

4’s have been commonly used for so long that the vast majority of cover material is mainly playable on the 4. That, and a Hipshot on a 4 gives you the detuned D string, which is also quite useful for a certain amount of material. The detuned 4 gives you access to the horn keys, and the longer string length has a certain sound that is longer than the stopped D on a B string. Downside is some modified fingerings need to be learned.

The B on the 5 is more generally useful for transposing. There are literally certain transpositions that just can’t be played on a detuned 4. For example, Can’t Hurry Love transposed down to Ab. Some tunes, like Uptown Funk, are more correct on the 5, but can be faked on the 4.

When deciding between the two instruments at gig time, I will take the 4 unless there are tunes on the playlist requiring the B. The reason I’ll take the 4 by default is that I prefer the lower mass neck feel on longer gigs. Dragging around the extra lumber if you don’t need it just doesn’t line up for me.

Last thing for me is that I’m just pickier about my 5’s. I’ve been trading gigs on two of them, one with 17mm spacing and one with 19mm spacing. I am kind of Goldilocks between them; so, they are both going up for sale shortly while a tweener build is in progress. If they both sell, I’ll just play the 6, when needed. Meanwhile, a good Jazz Bass in a 4 just always feels right.

YMMV

 

[mmbongo]

Man, glad I'm not going crazy! So the difference is real. That really makes me feel better, and now I can stop buying 4 string basses looking for that Holy Grail!

 

[Frenchy-Lefty]

I'd like to speculate than a bigger neck with more mass and volume tend to be more condusive to the sound but there is no science behind it. It is just my experience with all the basses I have owned 4 or 5.

 

[Bruce Johnson]

The factor is stiffness, not so much mass or weight. With wood type and general design being equal, the frame of a 5-string bass will be stiffer than the frame of a 4-string bass. And the frame of a 6-string will be stiffer than a 5-string. There's more volume of wood, and the beam is wider and usually thicker. It takes more pounds of force to bend it. That's what stiffness means.

If everything else (strings, pickups, wood, etc.) is the same, increasing the overall stiffness of the frame will increase the clarity throughout the range. It doesn't really shift the overall EQ curve, but you'll hear the fundamentals better. The bass sounds more bassy and the highs ring out more. And there will be higher sustain; less dropoff in volume after the initial pulse.

The tradeoff in increasing the stiffness is that the sound is colder; there is less richness and warmth in the sound. A softer (less stiff) frame will increase the background harmonics which make the richness.

So yes, the top four strings of a 5-string bass will generally sound different from a 4-string bass.

If all else is the same. It's not always. By varying the dimensions, structural design, and wood, you can make a stiff frame 4-string, or a soft frame 5-string. So, there's plenty of overlap between different design basses.

 

[Bruce Johnson]

I'd like to speculate than a bigger neck with more mass and volume tend to be more condusive to the sound but there is no science behind it. It is just my experience with all the basses I have owned 4 or 5.

No science behind it? See my post above. It's basic engineering of structures.

 

[MultiScaleMale]

No science behind it? See my post above. It's basic engineering of structures.

PS ^^ This guy knows a thing or two about necks.

 

[40Hz]

In real life with physics involved and spectrum analyzers implemented, there are more intense overtones, especially far from the fundamental, with a longer scale bass. Most of the harmonic energy in a short scale is in the fundamental and a few overtones close to it, hence the "thumpier" tone that folks associate with a short scale, and the "brightness" of a longer scale instrument.

Sustain only has to do with the construction of the instrument.

But yeah, YMMV.

I don't know why I always get that backwards. It's like HPFs and LPFs. I always get those backwards too.

Thx for the correction.

Someday I'll get it straight the first time.

 

[bucephylus]

The factor is stiffness, not so much mass or weight. With wood type and general design being equal, the frame of a 5-string bass will be stiffer than the frame of a 4-string bass. And the frame of a 6-string will be stiffer than a 5-string. There's more volume of wood, and the beam is wider and usually thicker. It takes more pounds of force to bend it. That's what stiffness means.

If everything else (strings, pickups, wood, etc.) is the same, increasing the overall stiffness of the frame will increase the clarity throughout the range. It doesn't really shift the overall EQ curve, but you'll hear the fundamentals better. The bass sounds more bassy and the highs ring out more. And there will be higher sustain; less dropoff in volume after the initial pulse.

The tradeoff in increasing the stiffness is that the sound is colder; there is less richness and warmth in the sound. A softer (less stiff) frame will increase the background harmonics which make the richness.

So yes, the top four strings of a 5-string bass will generally sound different from a 4-string bass.

If all else is the same. It's not always. By varying the dimensions, structural design, and wood, you can make a stiff frame 4-string, or a soft frame 5-string. So, there's plenty of overlap between different design basses.

I don’t think it’s that simple. The absolutely WORST sounding neck I ever played on was a Warmoth Jazz neck with the two steel reinforcing beams in it. That thing was so strong, you could have used it the drive your car over bad potholes in a pinch. Sounded like garbage.

 

[Frenchy-Lefty]

@Bruce Johnson I agree with you. The stiffness factor is probably what is behind this difference in tone. If you actually push this idea to the extreme you can just play a Status, a Modulus or a Viger with a carbon kevlar neck and the amazing tone clarity will strike you as much as the lack of warmth
coming out of the instrument.

 

[groooooove]

theres inevitably more matieral. so there must be something different. i'm sure somehow it could be measured and proved.

if you ever meet someone who insists they can hear that difference, just smile and nod. they don't realise how crazy they are.

 

[Bassist Jay]

Let's crack open a can of worms here!

Ignorning the B string, do you find that 5 string basses sound different than 4 string basses?

It's hard to explain what I'm trying to get at here. I had a 4 paragraph post written out that went nowhere so I deleted that so let me try to sum this up and see where it goes.

Essentially, it just seems that I'm always chasing a 4 string that sounds as good as my 5 strings. I've had a lot of 5 strings (and a LOT of 4 strings) and it just seems that the 5 strings always have a deeper, clearer, stronger sound. Especially the E string. I just can't find that power from a 4 string bass, and I've had some NICE 4 string basses. And I currently own 5 of them. I always go back to my 5 strings though.

I thought maybe it was the scale length, as all of my current 5's are 35" scale. But then I remember back when I had a pair of 34" scale 5 strings and loved them as well.

Maybe I'm not finding the right 4 string, but it just seems that they all have a more upper mid sound and not as deep and clear like the 5's. But it seems that no matter how hard I try, after years of buying basses, I can't find a 4 string that I love the sound of, while incredible sounding 5 string basses just seem to fall in my lap...which literally happened...which is one reason I'm doing this thread.

Maybe I'm crazy?

If you are comparing an apples to apples bass. Everything is identical. Same body, neck and fretboard wood are the same. Same pickup and electronics configuration etc.. To answer your question, yes, taking away the low B string, the EADG strings can sound different on the 5 string as they would on the 4 string bass. It will probably be subtle but if you played the two side by side, you may hear the subtle difference. The reason why is because the 5 string will probably have a slightly bigger body, fatter neck and slightly bigger headstock. With all of that extra wood on the 5 string, even though everything would match up identically on its 4 string counterpart, that extra wood will slightly change the sound. Or at least it can.

 

[sawzalot]

This thread is funny, years ago I had to struggle to find a five-string that sounded as good as a four-string. How far we've come.

 

[honeyiscool]

I see everyone argue that it’s the mass or the neck or whatever but it’s mostly that there’s an extra string.

There’s an obvious way to check. Play your five but take the B string off. You will lose the resonance and it’ll sound like a 4.

 

[dbsfgyd1]

Let's crack open a can of worms here!

Ignorning the B string, do you find that 5 string basses sound different than 4 string basses?

It's hard to explain what I'm trying to get at here. I had a 4 paragraph post written out that went nowhere so I deleted that so let me try to sum this up and see where it goes.

Essentially, it just seems that I'm always chasing a 4 string that sounds as good as my 5 strings. I've had a lot of 5 strings (and a LOT of 4 strings) and it just seems that the 5 strings always have a deeper, clearer, stronger sound. Especially the E string. I just can't find that power from a 4 string bass, and I've had some NICE 4 string basses. And I currently own 5 of them. I always go back to my 5 strings though.

I thought maybe it was the scale length, as all of my current 5's are 35" scale. But then I remember back when I had a pair of 34" scale 5 strings and loved them as well.

Maybe I'm not finding the right 4 string, but it just seems that they all have a more upper mid sound and not as deep and clear like the 5's. But it seems that no matter how hard I try, after years of buying basses, I can't find a 4 string that I love the sound of, while incredible sounding 5 string basses just seem to fall in my lap...which literally happened...which is one reason I'm doing this thread.

Maybe I'm crazy?

I’m not seeing a can of worms here at all. On a different thread a wise poster stated : why are you surprised when two different instruments sound different? In that light, I’m not so sure the difference is just having an extra string as much as a tonal variance from it just being another instrument. That said. Follow your ear take your time and fine the right axe.

 

[honeyiscool]

If you are comparing an apples to apples bass. Everything is identical. Same body, neck and fretboard wood are the same. Same pickup and electronics configuration etc.. To answer your question, yes, taking away the low B string, the EADG strings can sound different on the 5 string as they would on the 4 string bass. It will probably be subtle but if you played the two side by side, you may hear the subtle difference. The reason why is because the 5 string will probably have a slightly bigger body, fatter neck and slightly bigger headstock. With all of that extra wood on the 5 string, even though everything would match up identically on its 4 string counterpart, that extra wood will slightly change the sound. Or at least it can.

But the issue is that even 4s sound different from each other. An Ibanez 5 is no bigger than a Precision 4 and is often quite a bit smaller. I’m not convinced that a 5 with the B missing has any repeatable quality about it that differentiates it from the entire family of 4 strings. And there are people who do 4-to-5 conversions who’ll tell you that just putting an extra string on creates a much bigger sounding bass.

 

[tlc1976]

No science behind it? See my post above. It's basic engineering of structures.

Yes this is my take on it as well. The instrument needs to resist the tension of however many strings it has, but you're still plucking one string, so there is more stiffness to resist the same amount of vibration. My 7 string has the best B string IMO of any of my basses for this reason. The more strings you have, the more even sounding they should be. Yes that can mean less character.

In recorded music, I often hear 5 strings EQd differently, so the B string can be heard on small speakers.

 

[Bruce Johnson]

I don’t think it’s that simple. The absolutely WORST sounding neck I ever played on was a Warmoth Jazz neck with the two steel reinforcing beams in it. That thing was so strong, you could have used it the drive your car over bad potholes in a pinch. Sounded like garbage.

Oh yes, I believe that. Making the neck or the frame as stiff as possible doesn't make the bass sound better (at least to most people's taste). You can definitely go too far.

The stiffer the frame is, the less effect it has on the sound of the strings. If you carve out a block of granite, and fit it with strings and a pickup, the sound will all be from.... the strings and the pickup. The granite won't do anything. All of the flexing will be in the metal of the string. The sound on the string is a cold metallic ringing. The pickup "reads" the sound on the string, adjusts the EQ curve somewhat, based on its own internal construction, and sends the signal on down to the amp.

The block of granite is an exaggeration, but that's the extreme at one end. We call it a "plank" bass. The frame/neck is really stiff, and the sound is nothing but strings and pickup. Some players want that sound. If you play lots of super fast notes, you may want that percussive, pinging sound for the clarity. Many basses are deliberately made to work like that and sound like that.

At the other end, you carve the frame from wood and make it softer, less stiff, more flexible. Now, when you pluck the string, the frame flexes a little bit too, along with the steel. This pulls some energy off the string and changes how it's moving. It changes the sound ringing on the string. It makes the sound mushier (less clarity) and richer (adding background harmonics) and reducing the overall frequency range. The softer the frame, the greater the effect.

If the frame is excessively soft, the string will just make a dull thud. Warm, muddy, no sustain. Even a brand new roundwound. That's how a soft frame affects the sound on the string.

Meanwhile, the pickup just reads whatever the string is doing, adjusts the EQ curve somewhat, and sends the signal on down to the amp. Switching to a different pickup can change the overall EQ curve, but it can't turn a dull thud into a metallic ring.

A muddy sounding pickup can make a plank bass sound muddier, by slightly distorting the signal. Some pickups are designed to add some distortion, to soften the sound. The Fender P-bass pickup is a classic example.

But a very clear sounding pickup can't make a soft-frame bass sound clearer. The pickup physically can't make the frame stiffer. And it can't "sort out" the mush.

So yes, in your case, switching to that Warmoth neck with the extra steel bars made the frame too stiff and took away the sound that you wanted.

 

[Bruce Johnson]

I see everyone argue that it’s the mass or the neck or whatever but it’s mostly that there’s an extra string.

There’s an obvious way to check. Play your five but take the B string off. You will lose the resonance and it’ll sound like a 4.

No. The stiffness and resonance of the frame of the bass stays the same, even if you remove the B string.

 

[Bubble]

I think Camila Cabela's Havana song has to be a 5 string. Man you should hear it on the sub I have. One reason I'm looking for a 5 string.

 

[Manticore]

I own an Alembic Elan 4+ and an Alembic Elan 6 from the same era. The instruments sound essentially identical. I play them in a completely different fashion. Although they tone is the same, the style is very different.