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Do I have Perfect or Relative Pitch?!
- Thread starter johndough247
- Start date
Doesn't bother me so much. Pulls at my ear but doesn't drive me crazy. Some people complain of headaches and nausea when that happens. Drama queens, I'd say 
Anyway, the easy way to tell the difference is if your pitch recognition is instant recall or if you have to refer to one of the notes that's ingrained in your mind to figure it out. Sounds like you go through this brief translation before coming up with the note. That would likely be thought of as very high level relative pitch rather than perfect. But the difference in practicality is a distinction without a difference, really. It's every bit as good as perfect pitch. Not saying you for sure don't have perfect pitch, either. Just the way you've laid it out here makes me think it's super high level relative.
Anyway, the easy way to tell the difference is if your pitch recognition is instant recall or if you have to refer to one of the notes that's ingrained in your mind to figure it out. Sounds like you go through this brief translation before coming up with the note. That would likely be thought of as very high level relative pitch rather than perfect. But the difference in practicality is a distinction without a difference, really. It's every bit as good as perfect pitch. Not saying you for sure don't have perfect pitch, either. Just the way you've laid it out here makes me think it's super high level relative.
Your 18. Now I see.
IMO, being able to jam is not the be all end all definition of being a musician.
That's kinda like saying you have to be a quarterback and not a lineman to be a football player. To me, their are many different levels of musicianship, from creatives like the Beatles to the "impersonators" like Yoyo Ma to the guy who loves to jam with his buddies.
Whatever gets you through life. Play the music you like, have fun and who cares about labels.
If calling people names like "impersonators" makes you feel better, IMO, I think you have other issues beyond music to worry about.
Good luck with that.
PS. All us "older" guys that have been practicing, rehearsing, gigging for much longer than you've been alive, still know a thing or to. Listen up, sonny! Stop with the age thing!
It makes you sound foolish and immature.
Jazzdogg
Less barking, more wagging!
Doesn't bother me so much. Pulls at my ear but doesn't drive me crazy. Some people complain of headaches and nausea when that happens. Drama queens, I'd say
Anyway, the easy way to tell the difference is if your pitch recognition is instant recall or if you have to refer to one of the notes that's ingrained in your mind to figure it out. Sounds like you go through this brief translation before coming up with the note. That would likely be thought of as very high level relative pitch rather than perfect. But the difference in practicality is a distinction without a difference, really. It's every bit as good as perfect pitch. Not saying you for sure don't have perfect pitch, either. Just the way you've laid it out here makes me think it's super high level relative.
An aunt on my dad's side had perfect pitch. She was a concert pianist - took her own piano tuning tools to gigs, and wasn't shy about correcting the tuning of pianos she played - no matter what anyone thought or said. Pop said she had terrible migraines because of it as a child, but that they didn't discover the cause of her headaches until she began playing the piano. In Pop's family home, her perfect pitch was considered as much a curse as a blessing; like having eyes that are super-sensitive to light, or being hyper-sensitive to spicy food (people with a greater number of taste buds tend to be hyper-sensitive to spicy foods, while people with relatively few taste buds are less likely to be sensitive to spicy foods).
I've never read a scientific article that explained the physiology of hyper-sensitivity to pitch variation, but I'd like to. Intriguing topic.
Your 18. Now I see.
IMO, being able to jam is not the be all end all definition of being a musician.
That's kinda like saying you have to be a quarterback and not a lineman to be a football player. To me, their are many different levels of musicianship, from creatives like the Beatles to the "impersonators" like Yoyo Ma to the guy who loves to jam with his buddies.
Whatever gets you through life. Play the music you like, have fun and who cares about labels.
If calling people names like "impersonators" makes you feel better, IMO, I think you have other issues beyond music to worry about.
Good luck with that.
PS. All us "older" guys that have been practicing, rehearsing, gigging for much longer than you've been alive, still know a thing or to. Listen up, sonny! Stop with the age thing!
I respect you for being older so I'm not going to be rude.
But you took my age out of context.
See, I'm talking about people my age who are impersonators.
I'm not personally calling them like that in their face, nor do I plan to. You can't possibly presume that I act in any given way, judging from a forum post. But since this is a forum, and I'm free to speak up about my opinion, I speak up. In real life, I keep it to myself, and find MUSICIANS that I can connect to musically, and as expected from my previous post concerning age, they're usually a little (and sometimes a lot) older than me. That's how I grow as a musician, by playing with older (now I have to make this clear, wouldn't mention it otherwise), more experienced than myself.
Now, for the jam argument. You are right. And I take my statement back, maybe being what I call an "impersonator"
is a different set of skills in music. But I still don't understand that and I don't consider it musicianship. But still, I wasn't talking about JAMMING only, that's just silly. General creativity friend, nothing else.
I'm talking about people MY age that either play technical metal (no offense to the genre, it' just how it is) all day, just by covering the songs, but couldn't create a simple R-3-5 lick with maybe some syncopation and an octave here and there over a beat and a few chords. Or the people MY age that only go to music school and play pieces written by others, never experimenting or doing something with their instrument that comes from THEMSELVES. No, they aren't musicians in the true sense in my opinion, the people who wrote the pieces are.
But when you read all of this, I\m sure you know many people your age, too, that do this, Example one AND two. because I'm sure the younger people that surround me grow up to be just like that.
I wasn't talking about
Not at all. I don't know why you found yourself in my post, actually.
ACTUALLY, reading your post again, I am going to be just a tad rude.
Because
I never said that.
And
Whatever gets you through life. Play the music you like, have fun and who cares about labels.
You have no idea how I couldn't agree more, and as I said, I was just stating my opinion on a forum, IRL, I do just what I quoted.
Also
This is why I'm being a tad rude. If you can misinterpret my post, take the most negative out of it, and actually tell me that calling people names like impersonators makes me feel better (lol), proceeding to tell me that I have other issues beyond music to worry about... Without knowing me, my life, OR my musicianship (however you wish to perceive it)... Well, that makes you the one with issues. *You're* (that's how you spell it, although english isn't my first language) the one with issues.
My age has nothing to do with any of this. Maybe if I hadn't mentioned it, you wouldn't have made a post in the first place. (I hope the tenses are right in this one
)
Perfect pitch is a myth. No one comes out of the womb knowing intrinsically that G3 is 207.65hz, and getting screaming pains in their skulls if they hear a piano where G3 is tuned to 206.95hz. It just doesn't happen.
Therefore, all pitch is relative pitch.
Some of us learn earlier than others to identify whether we are hearing A or Bb. But it is a skill that anyone can acquire. But there again, it is a relative thing: you learn to remember what pitch is what, often by having reference notes in your mind's ear. You might be a fan of ZZ Top, and therefore easily peg G as the opening note in 'Tush' and A as the opening note in 'LaGrange'. And when you hear some new song, because you've done some ear training you instantly identify the interval from whatever note you are currently hearing to your reference note, and therefore instantly spit out the name of the note you're hearing.
People with "perfect pitch" simply have all 12 notes as reference notes.
Therefore, all pitch is relative pitch.
Some of us learn earlier than others to identify whether we are hearing A or Bb. But it is a skill that anyone can acquire. But there again, it is a relative thing: you learn to remember what pitch is what, often by having reference notes in your mind's ear. You might be a fan of ZZ Top, and therefore easily peg G as the opening note in 'Tush' and A as the opening note in 'LaGrange'. And when you hear some new song, because you've done some ear training you instantly identify the interval from whatever note you are currently hearing to your reference note, and therefore instantly spit out the name of the note you're hearing.
People with "perfect pitch" simply have all 12 notes as reference notes.
All us "older" guys that have been practicing, rehearsing, gigging for much longer than you've been alive, still know a thing or to. Listen up, sonny! Stop with the age thing!
And get off my lawn!!
Jazzdogg
Less barking, more wagging!
Like you, I don't believe anyone is born knowing that "G3 is tuned to 206.95hz."
Based on what I've read and the people I've known, discussions of "perfect" pitch usually involve at least two separate issues; one is pitch recognition, i.e., "name that note," and the other is hypersensitivity to minute differences in intervals that may be perceived as dissonant by a particular listener.
In the seventies, I knew a bartender who "saw colors" that represented various pitches.
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synesthesia)
He claimed that the colors fluttered or strobed in a way that made him uncomfortable when he heard bad intonation or dissonant intervals (not his words). This guy wasn't a musician, and he couldn't name the pitches or intervals that he heard. But, if we played a song in a different key, he might have said, "I liked that song better when you played in the green key," or "Why is the trumpet playing yellow notes when the rest of you are playing purple?"
I knew a guy in my arts H.S who had "perfect pitch". How it worked was that he could recognize any note, any cluster of notes in chords (i.e play any chord) and he would call every note by name immeadiately. It didn't take hime 5 minutes to figure it out. Whether they were Guitar chords or 10 note piano chords it didnt matter. And like someone said he could notice any alteration in the pitch (sharp/flat). The names of notes was indeed learned but the recognition ability and accuracy was God given. You can certainly work to improve your "pitch" but like most other things some folks dont have to work at them and still do it better than everyone else. Perfect pitch is NOT a myth. It was quite amazing.
One thing that I`ve not seen addressed in these threads is the fact that actually NAMING notes is not a requirement. If you have the ability, but no knowledge of musical notation, how can you know the names of notes ? You may know the note of the passing truck is the same as that first note in the chorus of that Zepplin song, but if someone asks you the name of the note and you can`t tell `em, it doesn`t mean you weren`t born with the ability, obviously.
It was addressed in this or one of the other two or three perfect pitch threads that sprang up at the same time. FWIW, I'm inclined to go along with you on that one.
Addressing the last handful of posts:
- sensory transposition is a very real phenomenon for a small percentage of the population. But it is not related to "perfect pitch".
- Naming the notes in a chord is standard for anyone who has taken a few semesters of ear training and sight singing class. Once you are familiar with the qualities of the various chords, you recognize them instantly. You yourself can probably do it right now! You likely know immediately whether you are hearing a maj7 vs a dom7. If you can quickly ID th root, you can call out the notes in a manner that appears instant to an observer.
- how do folks who are "born with perfect pitch" handle hearing ragas?? How about being forced to listen to a grand piano, where the pitches are always just slightly 'off'?? Gb In context is a different note/chord than F#, and that is compensated on a piano by having the three strings struck as Gb have ever-so-slight differences in pitch. How do they handle hearing a classical guitar, which cannot be as well- tempered as a piano??
I have had students and other observers marvel at my perfect pitch, which they assume I have because I can tune a guitar or bass perfectly in a few seconds without any reference point - no tuning fork, no electronic tuner. And I can hear a chord and identify the notes in a moment. I assure you it is not a thing that was inborn, it is a learned skill.
- sensory transposition is a very real phenomenon for a small percentage of the population. But it is not related to "perfect pitch".
- Naming the notes in a chord is standard for anyone who has taken a few semesters of ear training and sight singing class. Once you are familiar with the qualities of the various chords, you recognize them instantly. You yourself can probably do it right now! You likely know immediately whether you are hearing a maj7 vs a dom7. If you can quickly ID th root, you can call out the notes in a manner that appears instant to an observer.
- how do folks who are "born with perfect pitch" handle hearing ragas?? How about being forced to listen to a grand piano, where the pitches are always just slightly 'off'?? Gb In context is a different note/chord than F#, and that is compensated on a piano by having the three strings struck as Gb have ever-so-slight differences in pitch. How do they handle hearing a classical guitar, which cannot be as well- tempered as a piano??
I have had students and other observers marvel at my perfect pitch, which they assume I have because I can tune a guitar or bass perfectly in a few seconds without any reference point - no tuning fork, no electronic tuner. And I can hear a chord and identify the notes in a moment. I assure you it is not a thing that was inborn, it is a learned skill.
This isn't a discussion about ONLY identifying qualities of chords (yes the classes do teach that), this is talking about identifying the root AND the quality AND the order in which said notes were played to form the chord, without any external reference. Most ear training classes IME don't attempt to teach you that aspect.
Umm What? Sonically, Gb and F# are one in the same, no different. Different names only for notation purposes; for staying en-harmonically correct to the piece in question.
A Piano has more than one string for most of the notes for tonal and projection purposes.
