Do I need a new teacher?

[madbass6]

OK, rookie question but I've been playing 10 months and think I may need a new teacher. I'm totally new to bass but love it. I'm 50 and before this could play about 6 chords on the guitar and that was it. Never had a guitar lesson. I don't get to practice bass as often as I should but 2 small children and a full time job take up a lot of my time. I've had a lesson every 2/3 weeks for the last 10 months. I found my teacher through my wife's drum teacher. She's young but a music graduate and multi instrumentalist who majored in bass. She has great knowledge, great taste in music and is really encouraging. I'm learning to read music with her and we've covered the scales, circle of 5ths and she's challenging me to learn the fretboard (no tab) which I like. But, my technique sucks. In 10 months we've only really focussed on 4 songs, 3 of which have been too much of a stretch for me (Higher Ground, Hit me with your Rhythm Stick and Crazy Little Thing Called Love -all too fast for me). I'm finding it really discouraging and after a while I just don't want to practice. I just pick up my bass and mess around or resort to playing simple stuff from YouTube instead. Am I just a slow learner, not practicing enough (45-60 mins 3 or 4 times a week), or do I need a new teacher with a more gradual approach? I realise that she is trying to challenge me but it just feels like I suck all the time. I struggle with damping and the string noise I get with my fingering technique seems really bad. What do you think?

in your defence you're to new at this to suck !
Acording to your description of your teacher it sounds like you've got a good one! in my opion sounds like what you need is more Patience !
can't run before you learn how to walk!

 

[fearceol]

in your defence you're to new at this to suck !
Acording to your description of your teacher it sounds like you've got a good one! in my opion sounds like what you need is more Patience !
can't run before you learn how to walk!

Yes, perhaps more patience and discipline are what's required from the OP. I also agree about the ..."too new to suck.." statement. This however, is not helped by the teacher nominating a song like "Rhythm Stick" to work on. With only ten months of playing experience, of course you are going to suck when faced with such a song. This, IMO is forcing the OP to run before he can walk. Confidence and ability needs to be built from the ground up...and gradually.

 

[Robert Sperling]

I don't remember what my 1st songs played were, but they certainly were no where
near as complex as what your teacher has given you. However, you should feel that
you are progressing pretty consistently at this stage (there's ssooo much left to learn).
Practice as much as you really can (if your current time commitment is maxed, then
you need to maximize your practice time by learning new things or working on technique).
I've been playing over 30yrs, and still practice 2-3 hours 3-4 days a week, mostly I focus
on learning new material or trying to perfect technique or learn new techniques.
I would definitely have a talk with your teacher (and I think your right, she's probably
trying to stretch you a bit so you can see what you are capable of doing) ask her for
suggestions on songs you can learn on your own that will help you develop right hand
rhythm and technique...or take matters into your own hands and listen for songs with
great rhythm but simple note structure (another one bites the dust, rappers delight,
forget me nots etc. are songs I like to play to warm up and work on smooth yet funky
right hand technique). We all hit plateaus, even early on, there are a few ways to get
past them...take a break(not recommended for beginners), spend more time practicing,
find other people to play along with. That's about the best advice I can give you, I would
keep the teacher (she is teaching you some very valuable info, like how to read, which
will help you considerably later on in understanding things like chord structure and how
notes work together etc.) and focus more on what you wish to accomplish.

 

[madbass6]

Yes, perhaps more patience and discipline are what's required from the OP. I also agree about the ..."too new to suck.." statement. This however, is not helped by the teacher nominating a song like "Rhythm Stick" to work on. With only ten months of playing experience, of course you are going to suck when faced with such a song. This, IMO is forcing the OP to run before he can walk. Confidence and ability needs to be built from the ground up...and gradually.

good point..
But i doubt very much the teacher has a gun to his head shouting play it or die! if song(s) to hard just talk it over with the teacher and pick easier songs.

 

[jmattbassplaya]

Every teacher has their own unique approach that doesn't always match up with their students needs. An exceptional teacher will notice the disconnect and adjust accordingly.

After ten months of time to do so it doesn't seem like she has made the necessary switch. That doesn't mean she's bad or you're bad, but you guys probably aren't a good match for this kind of relationship.

 

[PauFerro]

Am I just a slow learner, not practicing enough (45-60 mins 3 or 4 times a week), or do I need a new teacher with a more gradual approach? I realise that she is trying to challenge me but it just feels like I suck all the time. I struggle with damping and the string noise I get with my fingering technique seems really bad. What do you think?

There is no such thing as a fast or slow learner in individual tutoring situations like this. Each person has their own pace (I am a full time university teacher so I am speaking as a teacher. I also have taught lots of people bass, primarily jazz).

I think you need to share your concerns with your teacher. This is valuable information, so rather than get a new teacher, give her a chance to adjust to your unique needs, and most importantly -- your declining motivation.

I have a few suggestion for what I would do to keep you motivated.

1. If I was your teacher, I'd be asking you how the lessons were going, how you were feeling learning bass guitar, and I'd be in tune with the fact you aren't practicing enough -- and would open discussion about it. So, since she isn't apparently broaching these topics, initiate a discussion about it with her.

2. She is a multi-instrumentalist. I would suggest that she plays piano or guitar along with you so it feels more like a duo or a band. At one point, the father of one of my students, who was a drummer, joined us in the lesson. I played guitar, student played bass, and the father played drums. It was highly motivating for the bass student to not only learn his instrument, but learn firsthand what it's like to play in a trio. Know a drummer you can bring to a lesson?

3. Tell her you want to learn new songs. and they should be simple -- give the Youtube ones as examples. I used the Hal Leonard method, which comes with a lot of songs written out that you could learn in tandem with their method. The exercises in the main book were short enough to help people progress, and the songs in the song book were great for keeping the student motivated.

Hal Leonard Bass Method - Complete Edition: Books 1, 2 and 3 Bound Together in One Easy-to-Use Volume!: Ed Friedland: 0073999950748: Amazon.com: Books

SEarch for the play along books that go with it. My mouse is acting up.

 

[fearceol]

good point..
But i doubt very much the teacher has a gun to his head shouting play it or die!

True...but I think you are missing the point. When a beginner acquires a teacher, they (the pupil) generally put their trust in that teacher to know what course of action to take and to come up with a series of lessons that start basic and build on what went before. The pupil, at this stage, is not in a position to know what is advanced or what is basic, and is guided by the teacher's advice. Nominating "Rhythm Stick" in the OP's situation would have him skipping the basic technique required to play the song. Technique takes time to evolve. For example, a right hand technique like the "Floating Thumb" can take up to four months to master.

 

[DarkAvianFind]

Long story really short. After 10 months you should be gigging.

Of course, IMO.

Remind me of a joke my teacher taught me.

"A guy starts taking bass lessons. The first week he learns all the notes on the E string. The second week, he's taught all the notes on the A string. The third week he doesn't show. Instructor calls him up to ask what happened. 'Oh, sorry about that,' he says, ' I had a gig.'"

 

[enricogaletta]

Try a lesson with a new teacher, nothing is better than a fresh inspiration!

 

[ba55i5t]

After listening to these tunes again, I do not think that these are appropriate for someone just starting off on bass - especially if they are written in standard notation w/o any simplification.

My first lick was Smoke on the Water then Dazed and Confused. I learned these off of a guitar teacher, as it turns out, but they were a lot better than twinkle twinkle...

At the beginning of your bass journey you should yes, learn the theory (from what I have gathered from the OP she seems to be right on track), but be playing first in a supporting role - think Jimmy Buffett tunes. That is where I started some of my students. Either there or some 12 bar blues will do.

Also, I found an ingenious free app to help w/learning the fretboard - it's called Fretboard Learn, works for 4,5,6 string basses and will be an invaluable tool for someone starting out (and the rest of us that have trouble in that 6-11 fret zone).

 

[hobosong]

My teacher has hundreds (maybe thousands) of songs, many of which he transcribed himself.. but when it's time to work on a new song, we figure out which songs together. If it takes two or three weeks to be able to read and play it, that's fine. And we'll slow the tempo until I get it. But any of these songs I can play fine, at tempo, if he just showed me how to play it, the exercise is learning to read it and figure out the notes, rhythms, and hand positions on my own.

So, if I didn't also train my ear, practice timing, playing with others, improv, etc.. on my own, I wouldn't have been very far in 10 months. And, if we didn't slow down some of these songs, I might never have got them. I even do this with the original songs from my band where I write my own lines... I still slow it down considerably until I have it down solid. In fact, if you slow down the song enough, it becomes just as challenging because your subdivisions are wider.

I would say consider continuing with your teacher if she's willing to give you easier songs to start with, or just let you provide your own. Then practice them at like 60bpm until you can play them perfect.

 

[pcake]

Highly recommended or other wise, IMO any decent teacher worth his/her salt who is teaching a beginner, will start with basic and safe technique.

for me, at least, neither of these teachers were worth a grain of salt. neither ever told me that there was such a thing as a setup or that my guitar could be easier to play. i didn't know there were different nut widths or neck profiles till i was in my 40s (and the lessons were from when i was 11 to 15), and as a result, it was so hard for me to play that i barely played for 20 years. then i found out, discovered i needed low action and a wider neck, and voila!

 

[Honch]

Frankly, that's an example of Dunning-Kruger Syndrome the other way around. At the teacher:

"Dunning and Kruger have postulated that the effect is the result of internal illusion in those of low ability, and external misperception in those of high ability: "The miscalibration of the incompetent stems from an error about the self, whereas the miscalibration of the highly competent stems from an error about others."

 

[5544]

Are the songs being taught because the teacher wants the student to learn technique or show how the previous lessons are applied in an actual application?

There is a difference between "play this riff" and "see how this riff was constructed using the notes from the scale I had you study last week."

 

[Element Zero]

oh my, those are fairly hard for first songs to learn. i started much simpler. first song learned was stand by me

Mine was I love Rock n Roll

 

[Nickweissmusic]

In the last 10 months I've also had the free trials at Scotts Bass Lessons and Study Bass. I was overwhelmed by the amount of information on both sites but found the structured approach on SB good. I may sign up later but for now I think I need to focus in on my goals and work on a plan with my teacher.
Question for the teachers out there - do you outline a plan for what your students will cover in the coming months or do you just take it a lesson at a time and adapt accordingly?

There's certainly a "master outline" in my head of what any beginning student should be working toward, which is "professional quality" technique and sound, taught along with theory fundamentals based on the music they're learning. That doesn't mean they will know everything a pro knows in one lesson a week, but sounding like a pro on music at the student's level, is possible. The difficulty level of music has NOTHING to do with a student sounding like a pro, and many pros have to play plenty of "easy" music. If you want to play bass with Springsteen (first you'd have to kill Garry Tallent, please don't do that!), you don't need to play "hard basslines." The point is, playing "easy music" like a pro is not easy, but that's the goal we're working toward for the first year or 2, sometimes shorter, sometimes longer. That's not to say I make every student perfect every project before we move on, or that I don't let students have fun and reach for hard songs above their pay grade from time to time, because that's part of learning too. We just have to be very clear about what the student can hope to achieve at that time, and not being perfect does not equal failure.

Now how long that process takes, and how to get there? That's up to each student's talent level, learning style, and work ethic. So that's a very "lesson by lesson" thing.

I see a lot of people advocating online learning, and I agree there are many incredible resources out there. I've learned a lot from Scott's Bass Lessons, Ray Riendeau, Jayme Lewis and others. But you CANNOT GET THE NECESSARY FEEDBACK ON YOUR TECHNIQUE AND SOUND WITHOUT A TEACHER. Those guys also need a "lay musician" translator from time to time, which is another good reason to have a teacher. No, I can't play everything they can as well as they do, but I can explain it

BTW, I wasn't familiar with "Rhythm Stick" before this thread... yeah, that's even harder technique-wise than the other 2, I'm questioning the teacher a bit more now. I still think the student should be honest and ask for a new direction, but it is a little strange to be working on those songs for almost a year. That said, if you're only seeing he teacher every 2 or 3 weeks, that's not actually a whole lot of lessons. So I'll stand by my suggestion to talk to the teacher and see how she feels about a new direction, and move on if you don't get the right answer, or she isn't capable or interested in slowing down.

 

[Yonni]

Thanks Nick. I think we have a lot to talk about at my next lesson on Tuesday.

 

[NeckPickup]

OK...I'll step into this one with the music educators out there. I would submit, based on the OP's age and lifestyle, that he will never be a professional musician. So why learn to read music at this point? I would say don't do that and wait until you have a need for it...you get a gig someday that requires it or you are just naturally interested in getting more than tabs offer. That will save you some time. It's good stuff but I would get a little further down the road first b/c it will take you a lot of time. You will improve but probably not need to use it. The bands you will find yourself playing in for the near future are not going to be handing you notation to read more than likely. I do agree you should have a discussion with your teacher...and slow down the metronome a lot increasing it slowly over the course of your practice between lessons.

Hopefully not straying too far off topic, but I see value in learning to read music at any age for anyone who is serious enough to want lessons, whatever their musical aspirations, even if you will only be playing covers. I say this from personal experience: by learning to recognize the various rhythmic patterns and syncopations while sightreading, I was able to improve the precision of my timing and accuracy of playing covers. You end up internalizing and cataloging the various rhythms, so that you instantly recognize them as "familiar friends", and can play back what's on the record more closely. Sure, this is not the only way to train your ear, but for me it beats calling the rhythms "ba doop", "bum de bum", etc.

 

[madbass6]

True...but I think you are missing the point. When a beginner acquires a teacher, they (the pupil) generally put their trust in that teacher to know what course of action to take and to come up with a series of lessons that start basic and build on what went before. The pupil, at this stage, is not in a position to know what is advanced or what is basic, and is guided by the teacher's advice. Nominating "Rhythm Stick" in the OP's situation would have him skipping the basic technique required to play the song. Technique takes time to evolve. For example, a right hand technique like the "Floating Thumb" can take up to four months to master.

Yeah good point(s) i totally get what your saying and agree but i think maybe im being misunderstood with my opinion.
all im saying if the OP feels songs are to hard just let the teacher know , im sure she will take his concerns into consideration and give him easier ones instead of replacing her for that reason.

 

[Shifty722]

Yonni, You and I are on similar paths and age, I do have a 4 month head start.

I play Rocksmith to play songs and have fun, it is helpful for learning to play songs, and the speeds can be slowed down or the song broken into parts to learn it. There is a draw back, it does not teach music theory or the notes of the instrument as you play. Like you I want to read and write music, understand theory etc.

I have practice time, where I work on technique, practicing and learning scales/modes etc. but I also take time to play songs and have fun, because I assume we do all this work to have fun playing our Bass.

Obviously I am not a music teacher, but I have taught in trade schools and motorcycle schools. Your teacher is young, and like you wanting to learn music she is wanting to be a teacher, she may need to learn how to be a teacher, she needs your feedback. If she shuts you down and doesn't want to hear your feedback then think about moving on, but at her age, you can help her be a better teacher, while she helps you learn your music, sounds like a winning combo to me.

Higher ground and Crazy little thing are songs I would like to play and I am getting there, but if they were given to me 4-5 months ago, I would have chucked my bass out window.

I was watching a interview with Steve Vai at lunch the other day, he had an interesting thing to say when asked this question " What would you say to anybody learning the guitar?" Steve's answer was an credibly simple "Play what excites you" he then smiled and that was it. I pondered on that for awhile, and he is right, I play along with Rocksmith, play songs and get a rush, it is exciting and it pumps me up to keep pushing and learning.

Make it fun and you will make time to play more.