Double Bass Do I need a pickup?

[Eric Hochberg]

I'll vote for the ease of playing with an amplifier.

I'm with you Ric. But, here's a story. I played with the Chicago Jazz Ensemble, a full big band, off and on over the years. It was directed by Bill Russo of Kenton arranging fame. We had a concert at a large club and I brought my little Bloc 50 amp with 10" speaker, while using a single element Underwood pickup. The whole band including drums was mic'ed.

At rehearsal, Bill kept asking me to turn down until finally, my amp was off. I had to play the gig unamplified. Of course, the most frustrating thing was that I couldn't hear myself, and my bass isn't particularly loud acoustically, but we all know that the sound of a double bass carries into the audience, so... An older school guy like Bill Russo is going to have a different bass sound/mix in his head than younger musicians, I concluded.

To the OP, yes get a pickup. It's today's standard. There are countless threads in the forum regarding most of the available pickups and amplification choices on the market.

 

[Fredrik E. Nilsen]

I'm with you Ric. But, here's a story. I played with the Chicago Jazz Ensemble, a full big band, off and on over the years. It was directed by Bill Russo of Kenton arranging fame. We had a concert at a large club and I brought my little Bloc 50 amp with 10" speaker, while using a single element Underwood pickup. The whole band including drums was mic'ed.

At rehearsal, Bill kept asking me to turn down until finally, my amp was off. I had to play the gig unamplified. Of course, the most frustrating thing was that I couldn't hear myself, but we all know that the sound of a double bass carries into the audience, so... And my bass isn't particularly loud acoustically. An older school guy like Bill Russo is going to have a different bass sound/mix in his head than younger musicians, I concluded.

It's extremely frustrating not to hear yourself, and for a beginner even more so.

 

[damonsmith]

Playing in a big band without an amp is not that big of a deal, and is possible. What I was advising against the Krivo magnetic pick up. With good technique a "normal" double bass pick up and small amp will suffice.

 

[Eric Hochberg]

Playing in a big band without an amp is not that big of a deal, and is possible. What I was advising against the Krivo magnetic pick up. With good technique a "normal" double bass pick up and small amp will suffice.

I agree regarding the Krivo and other Mag pickups. Might as well play a bass guitar.

 

[dan1952]

Playing in a big band without an amp is not that big of a deal, and is possible. What I was advising against the Krivo magnetic pick up. With good technique a "normal" double bass pick up and small amp will suffice.

I don't believe anyone thought that you were only against the Krivo pickup. And unless you have personal experience with the Krivo pickup, I'd advise you to withold judgment. I have yet to hear any complaints from recording engineers or FOH sound men that I wasn't using a piezo pickup. In fact, there have been nothing but compliments in all cases. Maybe you should talk to the folks at Gollihur Music, who probably have more experience in this area than you. Okay, now I'm going to get into my Stanley Steamer and drive away...

 

[Fredrik E. Nilsen]

Playing in a big band without an amp is not that big of a deal, and is possible.

It is possible, but it's not smart, and it's a bad advice for a beginner.

 

[Fredrik E. Nilsen]

Okay, now I'm going to get into my Stanley Steamer and drive away...

A car?? What's wrong with a horse and carriage?

 

[dan1952]

A car?? What's wrong with a horse and carriage?

What?!? Do you have a problem with a rickshaw?!?

 

[lurk]

I haven't used a Krivo, but decades ago I had a cobbled magnetic pickup on my upright and played it thru an Ampeg B15 with the UMich big band. We opened for Louis Bellsons band, and Louis and his bassist were all over my sound and checking out the pickup. When I came to Nyc lots of guys including my teacher Richard Davis had magnetic pickups. They're not ideal (I haven't used one in years) but they get the job done and don't sound like fretless basses in my experience. There's still a lot of the upright character there. What they lack is a lot of the subtle character of the sound and the attack/decay properties - something every solution I've tried doesn't quite get. The search goes on...

 

[Fredrik E. Nilsen]

What?!? Do you have a problem with a rickshaw?!?

When I grew up we had to carry the rickshaws, because we didn't have wheels. And we did just fine!

 

[Ric Vice]

I'm with you Ric. But, here's a story. I played with the Chicago Jazz Ensemble, a full big band, off and on over the years. It was directed by Bill Russo of Kenton arranging fame. We had a concert at a large club and I brought my little Bloc 50 amp with 10" speaker, while using a single element Underwood pickup. The whole band including drums was mic'ed.

At rehearsal, Bill kept asking me to turn down until finally, my amp was off. I had to play the gig unamplified. Of course, the most frustrating thing was that I couldn't hear myself, and my bass isn't particularly loud acoustically, but we all know that the sound of a double bass carries into the audience, so... An older school guy like Bill Russo is going to have a different bass sound/mix in his head than younger musicians, I concluded.

Very cool, I do remember hearing the Kenton band in Anderson, Indiana, at a Highschool Gymnasium, so the bassist had to do it sans amp. You could definiety hear a pulse, but
when they were playing tripple fortissimo sections, with all the horns firing, the bass was present, but way in the background. I played all through highschool on a Goetz plywood
bass in "Stage Band" without any amplification, when we went out on tour I remember the blisters, ouch. In college, I avoided Jazz Ensmble like the plague, but most
of the guys were using Fender Jazz Basses in those days. Pickups were pretty awful in the early 70's (Barcus Berry Sliver Bar and Chewing Gum, The Polytone "Jaws of Life", et. al)
so it was a toss up, whether to use one or not.

 

[MLysh]

I recall hearing Dennis Irwin playing with the Vanguard Orchestra un-amplified. Of course, Dennis could do a lot of things mere mortals cannot. Terry Clarke was playing drums that evening.

 

[Eric Hochberg]

Pickups were pretty awful in the early 70's (Barcus Berry Sliver Bar and Chewing Gum, The Polytone "Jaws of Life", et. al)
so it was a toss up, whether to use one or not.

I had both of those. The Polytone was pretty useless for me, but the BB with its preamp was pretty good for me, as I recall. Then came the Underwood which became the standard for a while.

 

[Eric Hochberg]

I recall hearing Dennis Irwin playing with the Vanguard Orchestra un-amplified. Of course, Dennis could do a lot of things mere mortals cannot. Terry Clarke was playing drums that evening.

Yes, I heard him too, and the combination of high strings, big old American Standard, and his mastery of that setup worked, at least at the Vanguard.

 

[Ric Vice]

I haven't used a Krivo, but decades ago I had a cobbled magnetic pickup on my upright and played it thru an Ampeg B15 with the UMich big band. We opened for Louis Bellsons band, and Louis and his bassist were all over my sound and checking out the pickup. When I came to Nyc lots of guys including my teacher Richard Davis had magnetic pickups. They're not ideal (I haven't used one in years) but they get the job done and don't sound like fretless basses in my experience. There's still a lot of the upright character there. What they lack is a lot of the subtle character of the sound and the attack/decay properties - something every solution I've tried doesn't quite get. The search goes on...

I had the good fortune to play a concert with Louis Bellson, he was a incredible musician, but man those double bass drums were difficult to hang with. Louis had some incredible stories. Just like you, I used a Tonnenges Magnetic
for a short while, but once the Underwood came out I was saved. In some ways, the older guys who played with Ellington and Basie had a nice gig. I heard both bands at Emens Auditorium in my hometown. The acoustics of that
hall were incredible, and the always put a decent mic on the bass. It took a long time to get that sound out of a pickup, even with todays gear, I like the microphone better if you're doing Ellington, Basie, Thad Jones et. al. Just my
take however, the right pickup can get pretty close.

 

[damonsmith]

I don't believe anyone thought that you were only against the Krivo pickup. And unless you have personal experience with the Krivo pickup, I'd advise you to withold judgment. I have yet to hear any complaints from recording engineers or FOH sound men that I wasn't using a piezo pickup. In fact, there have been nothing but compliments in all cases. Maybe you should talk to the folks at Gollihur Music, who probably have more experience in this area than you. Okay, now I'm going to get into my Stanley Steamer and drive away...

You will never hear a complaint from any sound-vulture you give a DI to, all they want is a clear signal and don't care if you sound like garbage! Most of us would never do it. Mic on the amp is most I tend to give. I gave a DI out of my amp only once in 25 years in a difficult recording session with two drummers crammed into a tiny room. I show up to recordings with no pick up on the bass so they can't even ask.

I've heard people use the Krivo and other magnetic pick ups like it. They always sounded like garbage - without exception. I love Gollihur, and order from them, but, they are business.

It is possible, but it's not smart, and it's a bad advice for a beginner.

It is actually great advice for beginners. It really helps develop your sound. I played unamplified in a free jazz big band for years when I was starting out. I am no fan of Wynton, but, he has the bass player play unamplified in big bands often.
In most cases, the horns are not raging the whole time, and there are soloists and a little thing called orchestration.
Building a strong acoustic tone is step one in a good amplified tone. Still, a basic piezo pick up and a small Acoustic Image or GK will be fine.

 

[Eric Hochberg]

It is actually great advice for beginners. It really helps develop your sound.
In most cases, the horns are not raging the whole time, and there are soloists and a little thing called orchestration.
Building a strong acoustic tone is step one in a good amplified tone. Still, a basic piezo pick up and a small Acoustic Image or GK will be fine.

Agree, except beginners and pros can hurt themselves by playing too hard without thinking (I did it last night while using an amp). I also would take exception to the AI combo recommendation as I have rarely been able to hear a bass clearly when amplified through one of these, at least those made after the series 1 version. That being said, I do love my AI head.

 

[Fredrik E. Nilsen]

Building a strong acoustic tone is step one in a good amplified tone. Still, a basic piezo pick up and a small Acoustic Image or GK will be fine.

That's two things we can agree on.

 

[Fredrik E. Nilsen]

In most cases, the horns are not raging the whole time, and there are soloists and a little thing called orchestration. Building a strong acoustic tone is step one in a good amplified tone. Still, a basic piezo pick up and a small Acoustic Image or GK will be fine.

And, for the record: I'm all for turning down and minimizing the sound on stage, also with a big band. But with a lot of modern music (and some of the classics), the horns have to play strong. You can't really play a high G mezzopiano on the trumpet in a big band setting. It's darn difficult, and the sound would be wrong.

Stage volume (again)

 

[dan1952]

You will never hear a complaint from any sound-vulture you give a DI to, all they want is a clear signal and don't care if you sound like garbage! Most of us would never do it. Mic on the amp is most I tend to give. I gave a DI out of my amp only once in 25 years in a difficult recording session with two drummers crammed into a tiny room. I show up to recordings with no pick up on the bass so they can't even ask.

I've heard people use the Krivo and other magnetic pick ups like it. They always sounded like garbage - without exception. I love Gollihur, and order from them, but, they are business.




It is actually great advice for beginners. It really helps develop your sound. I played unamplified in a free jazz big band for years when I was starting out. I am no fan of Wynton, but, he has the bass player play unamplified in big bands often.
In most cases, the horns are not raging the whole time, and there are soloists and a little thing called orchestration.
Building a strong acoustic tone is step one in a good amplified tone. Still, a basic piezo pick up and a small Acoustic Image or GK will be fine.

As I stated much earlier, I know how to get a good sound out of an upright bass. Makes it much easier to get a good amplified sound. I have had blisters more times than I care to remember trying to be heard outdoors over an amplified horn section, an electric guitar, and a drummer. And, by the way, I don't send a DI live, because I can get closer to an acoustic bass tone through an AmpegB50R, mic'ed. Now, back to my Amplified Peg...