I love my 72 Jazz bass. It's a piece of crap fit/finish-wise compared to the current USA or even MIM lines. Still love it though. In 20 years some fool will pay me a small fortune for it.
Enjoy the benefits of a premium membership!
Upgrade Account
-
TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
Join free Log in
Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.
Do some basses just need 20+ years before their good?
- Thread starter liveburning274
- Start date
I dont think so. If an instrument is still getting played 40 years later, it is probably because it was good to begin with.
Then a lot of TBers have a problem. I'm almost 70. Not too many bases were made in the 1940s.
Congrats on making it this far.
To me anything made after the early 70's isn't "vintage". It's "used".
Fenders from the 60s and 70s are worth more because the market says so. The supply will only go down or stay the same, it will never increase, therefore their value will never decrease until demand drops.
I contend that there are fewer being gigged and played because wear and tear at some point will diminish the value of a pristine model, therefore they are being stored away as an investment. Tone and mojo have little or nothing to do with value, lemon or no lemon.
I think the analogy to vintage cars is a stronger one than to vintage wine. A 55 Chevy is rarely a daily driver.
I contend that there are fewer being gigged and played because wear and tear at some point will diminish the value of a pristine model, therefore they are being stored away as an investment. Tone and mojo have little or nothing to do with value, lemon or no lemon.
I think the analogy to vintage cars is a stronger one than to vintage wine. A 55 Chevy is rarely a daily driver.
People's attitudes change. Part of attitude is rational, some's fashion, some's snobbery. Some instruments are looked down on unfairly, and some are over fetishized. For ex, 70s-80s Japanese instruments and Fender MIJs used to be thought of as second rank, for what were probably not good reasons.
It's interesting to wonder what might be looked down on now that acquires the rosy glow of nostalgia in the future. My guess is: well-made pointy-headstock 80s guitars and basses are now devalued, subject to modding/butchery etc. But as the generation that grew up with them ages, at some point a high-end pointy guitar might acquire a vintage value, and there will be fewer pristine examples because right now people don't care for them. Much like a 70s Fender in the 70s or 80s. I would say that pointy guitars are a risky investment (and I didn't care for them in the 80s), but you never know.
It's interesting to wonder what might be looked down on now that acquires the rosy glow of nostalgia in the future. My guess is: well-made pointy-headstock 80s guitars and basses are now devalued, subject to modding/butchery etc. But as the generation that grew up with them ages, at some point a high-end pointy guitar might acquire a vintage value, and there will be fewer pristine examples because right now people don't care for them. Much like a 70s Fender in the 70s or 80s. I would say that pointy guitars are a risky investment (and I didn't care for them in the 80s), but you never know.
I remember on-line discussions 10-15 years ago about the highly inflated prices for 'vintage' instruments that were mostly going to overseas collectors, and that they would never again be available/affordable in the general market. Many expressed concern at the time that once they were all gone, people would start to categorize the next decade's (i.e., 1970's) instruments as vintage, on a par with pre-CBS models, which is happening. My first bass was a '74 Jazz, and it was one of the good ones, albeit a bit of a boat anchor. 40 years have passed, so I guess it's fair to say that it is/should be considered vintage. Would I trade my 2008 American Standard Jazz for it? Not a chance! Everything about the new instrument is superior to the '74. 40 years from now, I'd say that the '08 would be a good candidate for a true vintage designation that's based on excellent construction and playability. But, I'll be long dead so it's a moot point. 
Maybe I'll hide a "stories of this bass" under the pickguard before I go for the curious future collector.
Maybe I'll hide a "stories of this bass" under the pickguard before I go for the curious future collector.
It's simple Nostalgia + Means (+ Scarcity Of Better Stuff)
I've spent my life going to vintage motorcycle swap meets with my dad and the trend is not limited only to vintage basses...
In the early 1990s:
The folks with the means to acquire the motorcycles from their youth were old enough that the bikes from their youth were Harleys or Indians. These bikes and their parts were very expensive, but available.
The folks who weren't quite "collector" age (and had no means) had grown up with British bikes, like Triumph, BSA, Norton, etc. The real collectors weren't into these bikes, so they were cheap.
The folks who were kids grew up with Japanese bikes. The British-enthusiasts of the 60s and 70s knew the Japanese bikes were outstanding but were bitter, and the real collectors thought they were junk.
In the early 2000s:
The folks who had been the collectors of the early 90s either passed away, already got everything they sought, or gave up looking. The old Harley/Indian stuff became mythical.
The folks with the means to acquire the motorcycles from their youth were old enough that the bikes from their youth were British. These bikes and their parts became very expensive, but available.
The folks who weren't quite "collector" age had grown up with Japanese bikes. The real collectors weren't into these bikes, so they were cheap.
In the early 2010s:
The folks who had been the collectors of the early 90s either passed away, already got everything they sought, or gave up looking. The old Harley/Indian stuff became even more mythical.
The folks who had been the collectors of the early 00s either passed away, already got everything they sought, or gave up looking. The old British stuff became mythical.
The folks with the means to acquire the motorcycles from their youth were old enough that the bikes from their youth were Japanese. These bikes and their parts became very expensive, but available.
It's funny. When I was a kid, people talked about 70s AMF-built Harleys the same way they talked about Japanese bikes (basically that they were lower than junk). Today, people are paying insane money for those 70s Harleys.
A similar trend can be seen with guitars. When I started playing in the late 90s, everyone was snatching up 50s/60s stuff, and had been for a decade, and as those have become mythical, we're on to the 70s gear. Try finding people in the late 90s who revered 70s gear. It's just like trying to find someone now who reveres 80s gear, but that stuff will have its time. And eventually people will be talking about 90s gear, and so on.
Nostalgia + Means (+ Scarcity Of Better Stuff)
Jacob
I've spent my life going to vintage motorcycle swap meets with my dad and the trend is not limited only to vintage basses...
In the early 1990s:
The folks with the means to acquire the motorcycles from their youth were old enough that the bikes from their youth were Harleys or Indians. These bikes and their parts were very expensive, but available.
The folks who weren't quite "collector" age (and had no means) had grown up with British bikes, like Triumph, BSA, Norton, etc. The real collectors weren't into these bikes, so they were cheap.
The folks who were kids grew up with Japanese bikes. The British-enthusiasts of the 60s and 70s knew the Japanese bikes were outstanding but were bitter, and the real collectors thought they were junk.
In the early 2000s:
The folks who had been the collectors of the early 90s either passed away, already got everything they sought, or gave up looking. The old Harley/Indian stuff became mythical.
The folks with the means to acquire the motorcycles from their youth were old enough that the bikes from their youth were British. These bikes and their parts became very expensive, but available.
The folks who weren't quite "collector" age had grown up with Japanese bikes. The real collectors weren't into these bikes, so they were cheap.
In the early 2010s:
The folks who had been the collectors of the early 90s either passed away, already got everything they sought, or gave up looking. The old Harley/Indian stuff became even more mythical.
The folks who had been the collectors of the early 00s either passed away, already got everything they sought, or gave up looking. The old British stuff became mythical.
The folks with the means to acquire the motorcycles from their youth were old enough that the bikes from their youth were Japanese. These bikes and their parts became very expensive, but available.
It's funny. When I was a kid, people talked about 70s AMF-built Harleys the same way they talked about Japanese bikes (basically that they were lower than junk). Today, people are paying insane money for those 70s Harleys.
A similar trend can be seen with guitars. When I started playing in the late 90s, everyone was snatching up 50s/60s stuff, and had been for a decade, and as those have become mythical, we're on to the 70s gear. Try finding people in the late 90s who revered 70s gear. It's just like trying to find someone now who reveres 80s gear, but that stuff will have its time. And eventually people will be talking about 90s gear, and so on.
Nostalgia + Means (+ Scarcity Of Better Stuff)
Jacob
totally depends on the instrument, builder, wood, etc. I was shopping for a Gibson L5 many years ago and looked at several old ones, trying to avoid the $12000 price tag of a new, custom order. I was surprised that none of them seemed to be what I expected a vintage guitar to be as far as tonal character, wood resonance, etc...nothing like a vintage acoustic for example. And a couple of the vintage L5's were pretty much the equivalent of dead firewood. I passed on all of them, even the one that had an asking price of only $1500, which was the deadest wood of all. With another comparison, though, my NYC Sadowsky P was stellar from birth and set the standard for all others to follow...new or used, worn or vintage. But like said, nostalgia comes at a price.
The 'vintage' thing is mainly just marketing.
Old things are not inherently better.
One can spend vastly less money to get an often superior new instrument, but where's the 'mojo' in that?
Old instruments usually are associated with cool stories, that's part of the appeal, but functionally it means nothing.
In the end value depends on what the owner/prospective owner assign to it in their own minds.
Old things are not inherently better.
One can spend vastly less money to get an often superior new instrument, but where's the 'mojo' in that?
Old instruments usually are associated with cool stories, that's part of the appeal, but functionally it means nothing.
In the end value depends on what the owner/prospective owner assign to it in their own minds.
The important thing is that enough people believe it. As long as they keep believing it in 30 years all of my basses will be worth five times what I paid for them.
I believe older woods can sound better,also as they age become more stable.The water content would be very different to a more recent piece. I,m sure there are certain kinds of younger woods that would sound better than some aged wood but would improve even more with age.I have read that the pores of wood opens the more instruments are played so with this in mind, I would imagine that exposing a piece of wood to certain frequencies could make a younger piece sound as good as an older piece. All speculation. With technology today Pickups can be duplicated to sound like older ones.I sold my 61 P bass as I honestly believe to my ears for what I play, it did not sound or play as well as my 55-94 Lakland. Then again I would not sell my '63 jazz.Is it better than my Pavel Classic? mmmm.
I'm just glad I like new and shiny over old and tattered. I have enough trouble keeping up with the new-shiny stuff GAS, let alone vintage stuff GAS.
I was there all right. It was a great time to be a musician and fan. I saw plenty of iconic music being played in the 70's by iconic players and most of them were playing CBS Fender basses.If you were there, your taste hasn't improved with age.
Those basses did the business.
