Along the lines JT traveled earlier in this thread - I like to think that we all count in the grand scheme of things.....
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Do you count?
- Thread starter danqi
- Start date
Trading 4s = Trading 4 BARS.
Now what's that mean, right?
Basically, someone plays some solo-type material for 4 bars...
Then a different player does some solo-type stuff for 4 bars.
Then the first musician returns for another 4 bars of solo-type material.
Then the 2nd player for 4 bars
Etc.
Too, it doesn't have to be 2 guys; I suppose all 4 members of a 4-tet could take part.
Example: Say the 4-tet is piano, bass, drums, & sax.
The pianist solos 1st for 4 bars(while the others comp).
Then the sax blows for 4 bars(others are comping)
Then the bassist takes a turn...
Then the drummer.
Trading 4s/8s probably happens more so in a LIVE environment...especially in a Rock setting.
I'm drawing a total blank on an example-
...the only thing coming to my mind is The Yellowjackets' My Old School.
It's Bob Mintzer(sax) & Jimmy Haslip(bass) doing their thing.
I remember this tune 'cause I was in a band that attempted it...& I don't solo!
Now what's that mean, right?
Basically, someone plays some solo-type material for 4 bars...
Then a different player does some solo-type stuff for 4 bars.
Then the first musician returns for another 4 bars of solo-type material.
Then the 2nd player for 4 bars
Etc.
Too, it doesn't have to be 2 guys; I suppose all 4 members of a 4-tet could take part.
Example: Say the 4-tet is piano, bass, drums, & sax.
The pianist solos 1st for 4 bars(while the others comp).
Then the sax blows for 4 bars(others are comping)
Then the bassist takes a turn...
Then the drummer.
Trading 4s/8s probably happens more so in a LIVE environment...especially in a Rock setting.
I'm drawing a total blank on an example-
...the only thing coming to my mind is The Yellowjackets' My Old School.
It's Bob Mintzer(sax) & Jimmy Haslip(bass) doing their thing.
I remember this tune 'cause I was in a band that attempted it...& I don't solo!
Most of the stuff I play is basic (no truly odd time sigs) so I don't have to count. That said, at rehearsal with my #2 band (pun partly intended), I count out loud during intra-song breaks because the drummer has time problems.
nope, but i keep time.
haha. i tend to flick my tounge on every fourth count. also sometimes, if i'm singigng i'll keep my toe beating to the rythm of the bass drum, therefore i dont look like an idiot, and i stay in time!
peace&plaid
-shoonk
haha. i tend to flick my tounge on every fourth count. also sometimes, if i'm singigng i'll keep my toe beating to the rythm of the bass drum, therefore i dont look like an idiot, and i stay in time!
peace&plaid
-shoonk
Originally posted by JimK
Trading 4s = Trading 4 BARS.
Now what's that mean, right?
Basically, someone plays some solo-type material for 4 bars...
Then a different player does some solo-type stuff for 4 bars.
Then the first musician returns for another 4 bars of solo-type material.
Then the 2nd player for 4 bars
Etc.
Too, it doesn't have to be 2 guys; I suppose all 4 members of a 4-tet could take part.
Example: Say the 4-tet is piano, bass, drums, & sax.
The pianist solos 1st for 4 bars(while the others comp).
Then the sax blows for 4 bars(others are comping)
Then the bassist takes a turn...
Then the drummer.
Trading 4s/8s probably happens more so in a LIVE environment...especially in a Rock setting.
This is very common - almost obligatory in Jazz! I think a lot of Jazz drummers have the feeling that they shouldn't solo as such. I have talked to a few like that - they say that jazz is about playing "with" other people and reacting to them - not just playing a solo in isolation.
So towards the end of a number, where everybody has soloed, the leader will start trading 16, 8s 4s etc. That is, not to go back to the tune "the head" but will improvise typically 4 or 8 bars and then "hand over" to the drummer. Drummer takes 4 (or 8, 16 etc) then back to everybody with another soloist for 4, then back to the drummer - typically this will happen 2 or 3 times round the "form" of the tune - "blowing changes".
This has happened on virtually every Jazz gig I have attended and especially on the opening tune of the set - so it is a chance for the drummer to get a "solo feature" without just being stuck on his own and the rest of the band "sitting out".
There are lots of variations - so I have seen this back and forth with the drummer, starting with 16s then to 8s then to 4s and also the other way round up to a whole chorus, if it is a fast tempo!!
I only count on odd time signatures.
Anything other than 2/4, 3/4, 4/4, 12/8, I need to count. If not, I may get lost and lose the whole band with me.
Anything other than 2/4, 3/4, 4/4, 12/8, I need to count. If not, I may get lost and lose the whole band with me.
i only count when i really have to
i find most rythums you can sorta 'guess', but someones that can stuff you up
, thats when i count
i find most rythums you can sorta 'guess', but someones that can stuff you up
, thats when i count12/8 That bastard always gets me. i mean, i'm playing more "complcated" time than that most of the time, but when that time sig comes in,, i just,,, i lose it...
This is how I am too. I was in the orchestra from 5th grade to 12th grade, so counting and sub-dividing became second nature. I have my internal rhythm to keep tempo.
I count especially when reading a rhythm Im not familiar with. EVERY bass player should start out counting so you internalize it and it becomes second nature. Bass players who have never bothered to do this are easy to spot. Keep in mind that the bass players job is to glue together the rhythm and melody! the response to this poll IMO should be 100% yes or those who answer no should imply that they did at one time and dont need to anymore because it comes naturally. 
Quote the great John Pastorius: "Rhythm is the whole deal"
Quote the great John Pastorius: "Rhythm is the whole deal"
not really, sometimes I'll count measures if something is repetative. I tend to tap my foot too. I used to do it when I first learned to read music, but that was years ago and I didn't do it for very long
Me too. I will add that when doing TV and film scores, I have to count because the parts are coming in and out all over the place.
I only wish there were more TV dates to work on!
Treenawhen I'm doing 16th notes I usually treat them as one unit instead of 4 separate entities, it's just easier for me that way, tapping ur foot helps too, and if I want to something a little more complex than just the four 16th notes my drummer is usually doing the same thing rythmically so I just play more with him
I play in a progressive rock band, so yes, when we have a section that has 2 measures of 9/8, a measure of 4/4, and a measure of 7/16, then yes, I count.
However, just last night I was working with the guitarist on a very challenging passage that was essentially a measure of 5/4, a measure of 6/4, another measure of 5/4, and a final measure of 7/4. The tricky part was that the measure of 5/4 was sort of subdivided exactly in half, so it may as well have been in 5/8 and 5/8. It took me 20 minutes to write out what he was playing, note by note, taking care to note the exact metric location of each note. Then I wrote a (killer, if I do say so myself) part, we put it together and it sounded great. And I don't count it now, I just feel it.
We have a very large passage in 11/8 that was a complete nightmare to work out, especially for the drummer, and I don't count it anymore, I just feel it. But there are some parts where I still need to count, mostly when we switch from one time to another and I need to count eighth notes to make sure I only put 7 of them in the measure or something.
Otherwise, I NEVER actively count if something is consistenly in the same time signature, whatever signature that is.
However, just last night I was working with the guitarist on a very challenging passage that was essentially a measure of 5/4, a measure of 6/4, another measure of 5/4, and a final measure of 7/4. The tricky part was that the measure of 5/4 was sort of subdivided exactly in half, so it may as well have been in 5/8 and 5/8. It took me 20 minutes to write out what he was playing, note by note, taking care to note the exact metric location of each note. Then I wrote a (killer, if I do say so myself) part, we put it together and it sounded great. And I don't count it now, I just feel it.
We have a very large passage in 11/8 that was a complete nightmare to work out, especially for the drummer, and I don't count it anymore, I just feel it. But there are some parts where I still need to count, mostly when we switch from one time to another and I need to count eighth notes to make sure I only put 7 of them in the measure or something.
Otherwise, I NEVER actively count if something is consistenly in the same time signature, whatever signature that is.
I am a drummer too, I have an internal metronome. Sometimes to help my young drummer out i'll tap a toe or bang/nod my head to the beat to keep him in time. A great way to develop this skill is to practice with a metronome, in time it will be ingrained in your very soal. I even keep the tempo of songs in our band sometimes if my drummer gets squirly during a part till he gets the beat back.
