No and no. I think delay and reverb ruin the Bassline. They turn it to a muddy tone with a wrong feel of timing in the mix.
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Do you record with delay and reverb?
- Thread starter Heroinsheep
- Start date
The real difficulty then happens in post. The burden of choice becomes quite a challenge as the engineer if you have a bunch of different options from one performance. Better to have it and not need it, but I’ve often been given tracks where there were four options for bass, three on each guitar, and not to mention drums with both overheads and room mics that are listed as “critical” in the file notes and yet don’t sound all that different.
My advice for this approach is to include detailed file notes and if possible a copy of the song’s demo version or a live recording to help the engineer pick the best option(s) from the files delivered.
I use a tc nova repeater delay pretty subtly. It’s almost like a reverb and delay in one kind of sound. It adds some vibe and wetness to my tone when I’m playing on the dusty end of the neck. It also adds sustain in a more musical way than adding sustain by compressing the hell out of the bass. That’s the main sound I use it for. But I’ll also use it with more drastic settings for swells and for Hollywood endings of songs where I kick in the delay at end of the song so if I end the song with a pitch dive (hitting the last note then sliding down the string) it repeats that and sounds pretty wild. So yeah I absolutely always have a delay on my board. It’s really one my top 3 effects along with overdrive and octave. As for recording how you do it is really up to you. I’ve done both where I recorded with a delay pedal and where I recorded dry then used a plug in. Pedals or plug ins both can work in the studio. Sometimes it’s easier to use a plug in if you want to match the tempo perfectly. But when it comes to the tempo of the delay im fine using the tap tempo and getting it pretty close to the click. Because I’m not really playing parts that rhythmically live or die based on the delay as long as it’s close it’s not a big deal. I’m not super anal about staying on grid because I think music that does can sound very roboticCurrently playing in a new project that seemed to really benefit from tones that involve both short delay and reverb on most songs.
I never had reverb and delay as part of my setup but I heard some great players use them so I thought hey why not.
So now the studio tech told me prior to recording next week "yeah if it's an effect you use, record with it" but I'm hesitant because what if it turns to be problematic in the mix?
It's hard do decide because they do really change the way you play, palm muting, doin crazy slides and all that
So I thought hmmmmm... Talkbass Poll.
Cheers
this video Janek goes into pretty good detail how he uses the same delay pedal. I basically just copied him.
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Do what you like and forget the “rules”.
The audio engineer can split your signal using a DI box and mix the clean and effected signals.
The audio engineer can split your signal using a DI box and mix the clean and effected signals.
There are no rules, but similarly the engineer's ability to split a signal and combine it later comes with unavoidable implications that should be understood going in.
I've tried and tried to record with them, but reverb ends up making my sound washed out, and delay throws everyone off (especially me) unless it's either a very quick slapback or the delays are turned down low enough not to hear all that well, at which point it becomes pretty irrelevant to my ears.
i gave it my best shot based on real studio experience. lots of things have changed since the era of your references. but you can record how you like, including the old fashioned way.good luck dancin' to the hits!
In my experience, the results are always more satisfying if you spend the time, and money, in the tracking phase - the mix just comes together very quickly, and effortlessly.
If you put off all your decision making until the mixing phase, you get overwhelmed by options, it becomes very time consuming, and expensive, and there's always nagging doubts.
With experience, you get to know what will work, what the ramifications are, and how to pick your battles.
Every artist / recording has different requirements. It's case by case, but often a mixture of the two - "is this sound a performance element, or is it a mix element?"
Fortunately, these days, whether you're emulating the types of things (stomp boxes, amps, cabinets, microphones, preamps, compressors) that would normally be inherently printed to the track, by using plug-ins. Or if you're simply executing a final mix "in the box", using plug-ins - it's very simple to digitally print all the individual tracks, for archive / remix purposes.
That's an important habit to get in to.
This a thousand times. Better planning and better arrangements make better records.
Well, the choice I'd pick is "I record dry and might add it later if it the song demands it." Delay and reverb usually make bass muddy. Except fretless solos, which really can shine with a touch of delay. And Marcus Miller uses reverb on the mid/upper frequencies of his bass and it sounds great. But usually for straight ahead tunes I don't use either.
Currently playing in a new project that seemed to really benefit from tones that involve both short delay and reverb on most songs.
I never had reverb and delay as part of my setup but I heard some great players use them so I thought hey why not.
So now the studio tech told me prior to recording next week "yeah if it's an effect you use, record with it" but I'm hesitant because what if it turns to be problematic in the mix?
It's hard do decide because they do really change the way you play, palm muting, doin crazy slides and all that
So I thought hmmmmm... Talkbass Poll.
Cheers
Use them but when recording they are additive to the mix.
I'd hate to have the perfect take only to find my ears overcompensated and now its too much and printed and can't be removed?
I always looked at reverb as a way to improve vox/some guitar/some parts of a drum kit. Same way I would always compress a kick I would always compress the bass. But for more experimental stuff I 100% get it. If I needed it, I'd use it.
Question is what do you hear when you record... Because if you only monitor the verby channel the clean will probably be quite sloppy and over confident (cuz delay and verb make you play much more frontal, being psycho-acoustically farther away, you use more slides, lots of palm mute, and play a bit more messy, naturally) so most likely the verby channel will be usable, the dry not necessarily. And if you monitor while recording a mix of both you will end up having 2 phasey bass channels and working with them both in the mix, our recording tech didn't like that idea and I kinda relate to what he feels towards "two bass channels that aren't the same".
the recording tech is actually quite the rising star young sound guy in my area he's been working for years for the best studios around, he was supposed to move to Nashville to work there before Covid... I estimate the value of the studio we are working in to be like 250$k (neve console and all.. no amps though..). So I'd say mid-budget. The 500$k+ studios always make me too stressed anyways. I'm really happy to have the opportunity to play this session anyways.
recording with effects ("to tape") is a no-no (for many reasons, some already mentioned). the advantage of adding efx, post, are myriad. this must be a low-budget studio endeavor in a low budget studio. also: monitoring the performance with effects is hardly a big deal in a real studio.
that said: good luck, OP --- you may need some!
Is your suggestion to just use plug ins all the time, also while recording?
Yeah it's hard for me to know... I like the verb and delay alot, because the guitar player uses oceans of 80s metallic sounding verb, for me to NOT put on verb is like to be in a different world... So me putting on subtle verb and delay make the bass feel more in context, so it's not a rhythmical delay like you describe with Pink Floyd. That's also why I'm not sure if it's a must.
Thanks for sharing these thoughts... But I kinda lost you about the plug ins...
You mean monitoring using plug ins, then having the ability to change them later?
my POV: record to drive/tape dry. that studio (as you describe) is capable of 'effecting' your monitor/headphone signal in any way you want (reverb/delay/etc.). applying efx, post, and being able to tweak them in the context of the mixing decisions is S.O.P.
i'm going to guess this is about budget, the 'rising star' status of the youngster ("tech"), notwithstanding.
in any case: good luck with your recording experience!
Always record dry unless you're using something that can't be replicated in software and you don't have the equipment to re-amp.
This reminds me of a band I recorded about 10 years ago. It was a loud three piece and we recorded live takes in their 15'x15' rehearsal space. No isolation, just some tricky mic placements to help minimize unworkable bleed. They played with full effects and amp volumes just loud enough for them to play. The delays and feedbacks and such are part of the performance so they had to be done live. The drums were done with just four mics in a modified Glyn Johns setup: kick, snare, and a pair of AT4040s as tight area mics. Performance amps were positioned for maximum back rejection from drums mics to minimize bleed. Also, for the bass and guitar, I inserted a DI for each so that I could take a mic from each amp and a dry line for re-amping later. Tracked all of the live takes in a single night, then just one more session for vocals and re-amping.
For re-amping, we ran both the bass and guitar DI signals back through EVERY amp in the room simultaneously, one instrument at a time. It was a shared rehearsal space so we asked the other musicians if we could commandeer their rigs for recording and they were fine with it. Each amp was tech'd and mic'd individually but all were run and tracked simultaneously with the addition of a room mic. About 4 Sunn stacks were used for this along with a few Fenders. It was so loud on the bass pass that the wall were shaking! The bass and guitar ended up with 6-7 mic'd tracks each, so instead of relying on EQ'ing in the mix, I just had to run faders for the difference mic tracks.
I still really like how this came out, especially for a rehearsal space album. Here's a track:
