I used to do a LOT of sub work. I enjoyed it. I'm in a different place now and less inclined to take sub work.
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Do you sub?
- Thread starter gln1955
- Start date
The odd thing about the jazz scene is that you tend to start out by subbing, before being asked to play in cohesive bands. Likewise with classical. I've done extensive subbing over the years and will continue to take sub gigs when I get the call.
These days, I actually prefer playing with bands that rehearse. At the level I'm at, rehearsals have a noticeable effect on the quality of performances. And what am I going to do if the band doesn't rehearse? I'll be practicing anyway. With that said, the rehearsals have to be well run and show proper respect for my time.
These days, I actually prefer playing with bands that rehearse. At the level I'm at, rehearsals have a noticeable effect on the quality of performances. And what am I going to do if the band doesn't rehearse? I'll be practicing anyway. With that said, the rehearsals have to be well run and show proper respect for my time.
Way back in the mid 70`s I did a bunch of sub work. A couple of times it resulted in some longer term work. Once it landed me a great gig for a few months.
I think you're looking at it wrong. It's not the work involved in learning a bunch of songs so much as the opportunity to learn new songs.
Look, musicianship is about being able to make it work. Learning a bunch of songs and being able to regurgitate them in front of an audience is an important part of being a musician, but the bigger part is being able to convincingly pull off material you aren't familiar with while playing with musicians you haven't had time to build a relationship with. That's next-level musicianship. Subbing is an opportunity to work on the latter.
B
Sometimes a sub with good ears & instincts will make the band sound better than it does with their usual player. That’s always fun.
I'm usually not too intimidated to jump in a jazz, country or folk type setting. I can always count on the symphony to throw me in the deep end. (They're the gold standard for productive rehearsals, though; straight to next-level phrasing & dynamics.)
I'm usually not too intimidated to jump in a jazz, country or folk type setting. I can always count on the symphony to throw me in the deep end. (They're the gold standard for productive rehearsals, though; straight to next-level phrasing & dynamics.)
Doug Parent
Supporting Member
30% I sub for other people. The rest is split between two bands. I enjoy playing other types of music when I get a chance, keeps it fresh.
Does fantasizing about subbing count? I actually learned a bunch of songs of one of the top rock bands in the US because I know a relative of one of the members and thought, "what if their bass player breaks his arm or something? That could be my chance! I mean, I'd better be ready so I can help out!" Since I only play at home 99% of the time these days, it was great motivation to listen to a bunch of new-to-me music and learn it and play along with it.
I have a jazz collective so technically we’re all subs. Sometimes a bar or restaurant wants a trio or quartet or a larger ensamble so the lineup depends on who is available.
I host a recurring jam session where we come together and play tunes or learn new tunes. It’s a nice community of musicians but the important thing is that we have a lot of fun! I started this to get me some playing time with musicians but we’re now starting to get some gigs! It’s really convenient when you have a bench with talent!
I host a recurring jam session where we come together and play tunes or learn new tunes. It’s a nice community of musicians but the important thing is that we have a lot of fun! I started this to get me some playing time with musicians but we’re now starting to get some gigs! It’s really convenient when you have a bench with talent!
When I was doing music full time, a lot of my income was specifically from being not only a sub, but for being THE guy you can call last minute. I learn quick, had a huge catalog of covers, and I’m an extremely comfortable improviser.
The hard part was to develop a ‘market’ that wasn’t just coverbands and wedding bands (which I’m not in love with doing). What I really liked doing as a sub was handling original music when the bassist gets the flu or going on a tour that someone’s double booked for- I really had to be present in the scene, keep up contact with people, and basically always be visible and on people’s mind- A lot lot of people will just cancel gigs or not book dates where there’s a conflict; What I did was to be proactive enough (and pleasant enough to work with) that when a band has a conflict or a bassist has to cancel, they think of me as a sub before just passing on the show. I ran out of steam because it’s such a hustle, and because it’s just not sustainable without a huge proportion of cover/wedding gigs, and that kind of business plan REALLY gets in the way of actively running my own projects. It’s a decent way to make a living, especially if you’re in a big city, but my heart has never ever ever been in covers and subbing, and even with a FUN originals sub gig, it just didn’t compare to playing music for ME.
The hard part was to develop a ‘market’ that wasn’t just coverbands and wedding bands (which I’m not in love with doing). What I really liked doing as a sub was handling original music when the bassist gets the flu or going on a tour that someone’s double booked for- I really had to be present in the scene, keep up contact with people, and basically always be visible and on people’s mind- A lot lot of people will just cancel gigs or not book dates where there’s a conflict; What I did was to be proactive enough (and pleasant enough to work with) that when a band has a conflict or a bassist has to cancel, they think of me as a sub before just passing on the show. I ran out of steam because it’s such a hustle, and because it’s just not sustainable without a huge proportion of cover/wedding gigs, and that kind of business plan REALLY gets in the way of actively running my own projects. It’s a decent way to make a living, especially if you’re in a big city, but my heart has never ever ever been in covers and subbing, and even with a FUN originals sub gig, it just didn’t compare to playing music for ME.
I enjoy juggling a half-dozen regular bands, but subbing provides my greatest satisfaction as a musician these days, in particular when I do it on a short notice emergency basis: no advance rehearsal of course, just me doing homework. It's rewarding to receive effusive thanks for saving a band from canceling a gig because their regular bassist suddenly became unavailable. Two Saturdays ago I got the love from a bassist buddy who woke up sick as a dog and gave me his gig that evening (fortunately I was open, and had notes from subbing with his band a year ago).
Full disclosure: I'm not a jazz guy or full-time pro, I can't sight read, and I'm not great with proper chord charts (I prefer numbers to letters, see below). I mostly do bar gigs with classic cover bands who play rock, pop, blues, country, R&B, oldies. Exception: a few years ago I subbed on 2 weeks notice with an all original blues/funk/rock trio. As it turned out these sub gigs were an audition to replace their departing bassist, and fortunately I played well enough to become the primary bassist (an originals band that gets paying gigs... shocked the hell out of me
).
To the OP: sure, subbing was stressful for me too at first, but the more you do it, the more comfortable you become. You get the hang of listening, which allows you to adjust on the fly to changes in structure, anticipate endings, etc.
Another thing to remember: of course you want to play your best, but you're a sub, so don't sweat any hiccups that may occur, especially if you're coming in cold on short notice: the band probably won't expect perfection. Now, I'm saying this as a bar band guy -- the bar is set higher for big money gigs (which are above my pay grade). But once I became comfy with subbing at my level, I've been told a couple of times that I played better than the regular bassist (which might reflect on the regular bassist more than me, but I'm happy for these compliments regardless).
With cover bands there's occasionally negotiations on the set list: e.g. "I'm giving you our full list of 80 tunes, I've highlighted 20 that we really want to do, and you can pick any 25 from the remainder". But as anold experienced vet I usually know 60-90% of a cover band's entire catalog already, and I enjoy doing homework on the remainder (depending on how much time I have to prepare) because the more songs you learn, the easier it becomes to learn new songs**.
Before my 1st sub with a band I always confirm that it'll be OK for me to read from my tablet. It's always been OK. After 8 years of using the tablet (before that, paper) it contains over 700 song "charts" -- quotes because I write them in my simplified Nashville Numbers shorthand. I need to stress: I rarely need to use the tablet for more than a few songs per set, and when I do, it's usually a quick glance as refresher. However I do sometimes have to read all the way through a chart if the song is complex, and/or brand new to me.
** I should add that writing out these charts has helped me become better at learning songs, especially when it's a challenge to parse a song into verse, pre-chorus, chorus, bridge, etc. I actually used to get annoyed if a band decided to veto a song after I'd already learned it... that was so silly! I now save a chart for every new song I learn, no matter how simple ("12 bar, quick 4"), because even if I don't play it at the sub gig it might come up again in the future.
Full disclosure: I'm not a jazz guy or full-time pro, I can't sight read, and I'm not great with proper chord charts (I prefer numbers to letters, see below). I mostly do bar gigs with classic cover bands who play rock, pop, blues, country, R&B, oldies. Exception: a few years ago I subbed on 2 weeks notice with an all original blues/funk/rock trio. As it turned out these sub gigs were an audition to replace their departing bassist, and fortunately I played well enough to become the primary bassist (an originals band that gets paying gigs... shocked the hell out of me
).To the OP: sure, subbing was stressful for me too at first, but the more you do it, the more comfortable you become. You get the hang of listening, which allows you to adjust on the fly to changes in structure, anticipate endings, etc.
Another thing to remember: of course you want to play your best, but you're a sub, so don't sweat any hiccups that may occur, especially if you're coming in cold on short notice: the band probably won't expect perfection. Now, I'm saying this as a bar band guy -- the bar is set higher for big money gigs (which are above my pay grade). But once I became comfy with subbing at my level, I've been told a couple of times that I played better than the regular bassist (which might reflect on the regular bassist more than me, but I'm happy for these compliments regardless).
With cover bands there's occasionally negotiations on the set list: e.g. "I'm giving you our full list of 80 tunes, I've highlighted 20 that we really want to do, and you can pick any 25 from the remainder". But as an
Before my 1st sub with a band I always confirm that it'll be OK for me to read from my tablet. It's always been OK. After 8 years of using the tablet (before that, paper) it contains over 700 song "charts" -- quotes because I write them in my simplified Nashville Numbers shorthand. I need to stress: I rarely need to use the tablet for more than a few songs per set, and when I do, it's usually a quick glance as refresher. However I do sometimes have to read all the way through a chart if the song is complex, and/or brand new to me.
** I should add that writing out these charts has helped me become better at learning songs, especially when it's a challenge to parse a song into verse, pre-chorus, chorus, bridge, etc. I actually used to get annoyed if a band decided to veto a song after I'd already learned it... that was so silly! I now save a chart for every new song I learn, no matter how simple ("12 bar, quick 4"), because even if I don't play it at the sub gig it might come up again in the future.
I sub for a couple bands. At first I didn’t like it, but once I know the material and the players it is a lot of fun. Occasionally I’m too much of a nice guy and I’ll get roped into subbing last minute for a band I’m not familiar with, and more often than not it sucks. I hate not knowing the material. I’m a OG and don’t know a lot of modern / new bands and popular songs, but if it’s classic rock, blues, old school country, American roots music or really jam band ish I can get through the night.
There was a while I tried putting myself out on CL as a gun-for-hire sub, to see if I could get busier and just to see if I could pull it off. I think I got one, maybe two actual gigs that way, and a couple of bites that wound up falling through. Too busy with life in general to do that these days. What I've done more of is subbing in for bands I used to be part of when their new bassist wasn't available. But it's been a while since one of those came up.
My gigging overall has declined precipitously since the pandemic, but when things were still normal, maybe 10-15% of my gigs were subs. Mostly long-term relationships with a few different bands, not too many one-offs.
With one band, everyone lived in Boston except the bassist who was in Nashville. He did all the touring and recording and I played all the local bar gigs. I was subbing with them when we got to open for Robert Plant in NYC
My brother is a drummer leading 3 bands and I’ve been his first call for a long time. Brothers who play bass and drums but have never been in a band together! We live in different states and his gigs are too far to drive on a regular basis. There was one band where we were both members just not at the same time
I’ve had him sub for bands I was in a few times.
Here in New England there used to be a solid Cajun/zydeco scene with monthly dance events in 6 cities plus three annual festivals. As you'd suspect not a lot of locals were experienced in Louisiana music. Back in the 1990s I had been in two bands (not at the same time) and subbed with almost all the other bands in the area at least once.
I’ve gotten some sweet one-off gigs because the regular bassist couldn’t attend the rehearsals.
The blues scene up here is incestuous, everybody knows everybody else. I’ve done most of my subbing in blues bands, initially because in the 1990s I was one of the few DB players on the scene. That really took my gig opportunities to the next level. I’d drop into jam sessions with my DB and for the next few weeks I'd get calls for sub work.
Recently I feel like an ambulance chaser, doing subs for guys who had heart attacks the day before
, eye surgery, hip replacements, etc. In one band I was asked to sub for a guy who needed heart surgery for a few weeks. It’s been almost two years now and he hasn’t recovered to the point where he could ever play again. I’ve been doing 75% of the gigs so I suppose I should ask the BL if I’m the new guy 
With one band, everyone lived in Boston except the bassist who was in Nashville. He did all the touring and recording and I played all the local bar gigs. I was subbing with them when we got to open for Robert Plant in NYC
My brother is a drummer leading 3 bands and I’ve been his first call for a long time. Brothers who play bass and drums but have never been in a band together! We live in different states and his gigs are too far to drive on a regular basis. There was one band where we were both members just not at the same time
I’ve had him sub for bands I was in a few times.Here in New England there used to be a solid Cajun/zydeco scene with monthly dance events in 6 cities plus three annual festivals. As you'd suspect not a lot of locals were experienced in Louisiana music. Back in the 1990s I had been in two bands (not at the same time) and subbed with almost all the other bands in the area at least once.
I’ve gotten some sweet one-off gigs because the regular bassist couldn’t attend the rehearsals.
The blues scene up here is incestuous, everybody knows everybody else. I’ve done most of my subbing in blues bands, initially because in the 1990s I was one of the few DB players on the scene. That really took my gig opportunities to the next level. I’d drop into jam sessions with my DB and for the next few weeks I'd get calls for sub work.
Recently I feel like an ambulance chaser, doing subs for guys who had heart attacks the day before
, eye surgery, hip replacements, etc. In one band I was asked to sub for a guy who needed heart surgery for a few weeks. It’s been almost two years now and he hasn’t recovered to the point where he could ever play again. I’ve been doing 75% of the gigs so I suppose I should ask the BL if I’m the new guy 
I've subbed forever and the better the players, the better the subbing in gets. ... Getting a heads up before it happens and being open to helping with keys or cues makes it go smother. ... Being able to read guitar or keyboards chords helps greatly. ... Just show up on time, smile and do the best you can is all they ask.
I selected other. I've only been a part of the music scene in this area for the past year or so as I had taken many years off to raise my kids. During my time off, I only played on church worship bands.
I don't know if I would be willing to sub or not. It depends entirely on the rest of the information I was going to be getting. When? How much? How many songs am I going to have to learn in what amount of time? Where?
I have reached the point in my music playing where I am like I was when I first started my career in IT. At the time, I moved out of state for a job because this area didn't pay anything for entry level IT, and I stated, "I'm not a circus elephant. I don't work for peanuts."
I don't know if I would be willing to sub or not. It depends entirely on the rest of the information I was going to be getting. When? How much? How many songs am I going to have to learn in what amount of time? Where?
I have reached the point in my music playing where I am like I was when I first started my career in IT. At the time, I moved out of state for a job because this area didn't pay anything for entry level IT, and I stated, "I'm not a circus elephant. I don't work for peanuts."
