Do you want a very tense D string?

[Ricky Rioli]

Is so, Daddario have lots of options for you!

Chromes
45-65-80-100 — 47 + 54 + 48 + 40
50-70-85-105 — 64 + 65 + 52 + 43

Pro Steels
45-65-80-100 — 42 + 47 + 39 + 34
50-70-85-105 — 49 + 54 + 44 + 37

And so on, you get the point.

How is it that these patterns of gauges and tensions evolved? What's the benefit?

In both my Pro Steel and my Chromes sets I've got an 65 D with an 85 A — to me, both pairings sound and feel balanced.

What is it I am failing to understand about 65 D with 80 A?

 

[michael_t]

This is what I personally refer to as "TDS" (Tight D Syndrome), which is something I try to avoid as much as possible. And that's at least part of the reason why I stopped using D'Addario.

When I first tried the GHS Pressurewound ML7200 (44-58-80-102) back in 2015, I said to myself, "Now there's a company who knows what I want!"

G 044 - 43.3 (lbs.)
D 058 - 41.9 = No TDS!
A 080 - 44.6
E 102 - 39.5

 

[Vinny_G]

How is it that these patterns of gauges and tensions evolved? What's the benefit?

None, it's tradition and players get used to it. What you discovered has bothered me for a long time, and I used to make my own (approximately) balanced tension sets with single strings.

Until D'Addario, precisely, released three ready-made and very well designed balanced tension sets, for a reasonable price.

EXL170BT
45-60-80-107 — 42.52 + 40.86 + 40.05 + 39.45 = No TDS!

The only strings with which I managed to do almost as well as the D'Addario are the Galli Synthesis Nickel. By combining a 45-105 with a 40-100 to make a 45-60-80-105, we get: 47.7 + 45.9 + 45.1 + 43.7.

I know strings that are balanced on paper won't necessarily be balanced in feel and sound, as I've experienced with other brands, but that just happens to be the case with these two.

Obviously, I'll stick with D'Addario because it's prohibitively expensive and stupid to have to buy two sets and throw away four strings.

 

[J Posega]

Traditionally, electric bass D and G strings were made fatter in hopes of them sounding fatter. They suck to play on. I also prefer balanced tension string sets, and have bought sets from D'addario and Stringjoy, as well as made them with D'addario singles.

I'm gravitating more towards progressive tension, where the tension progressively gets lower string to string, from low strings to high strings. Keeps the low strings tight and the high strings more flexible and bendy.

 

[Ricky Rioli]

Traditionally, electric bass D and G strings were made fatter in hopes of them sounding fatter

My desperate stab in the dark was to wonder if the heavier D and G gauges were an attempt to counter the effects of a P-bass's split pickup.

But since a heavier gauge gives a more taut string, and a more taut string is more brilliant, presumably I've got that all wrong. Right?

 

[J Posega]

My desperate stab in the dark was to wonder if the heavier D and G gauges were an attempt to counter the effects of a P-bass's split pickup.

But since a heavier gauge gives a more taut string, and a more taut string is more brilliant, presumably I've got that all wrong. Right?

The P bass had a single coil first, so I really don't know what they were thinking. I imagine the amps of the day had a lot to do with it, too.

 

[Ricky Rioli]

How is it that these patterns of gauges and tensions evolved? What's the benefit?

None, it's tradition and players get used to it.

Traditionally, electric bass D and G strings were made fatter in hopes of them sounding fatter

My desperate stab in the dark was to wonder if the heavier D and G gauges were an attempt to counter the effects of a P-bass's split pickup.

The P bass had a single coil first, so I really don't know what they were thinking. I imagine the amps of the day had a lot to do with it, too.

Finally, the penny has dropped! Thank you everyone, my clouds of cluelessness are beginning to disperse

 

[Jon Moody]

The P bass had a single coil first, so I really don't know what they were thinking. I imagine the amps of the day had a lot to do with it, too.

Right, a flat single coil pickup with a radiused fretboard. From what I understand, the D/A strings were made with more mass because in this configuration, they were further from the pickup and needed something to even out the tone/volume with the G/E strings.

 

[J Posega]

It also makes sense from the perspective of the electric bass being so different to play than the upright bass that players making the transition probably didn't care about something like uneven string tension. We now have the luxury of being as nitpicks as we want to be.

 

[iiipopes]

It also makes sense from the perspective of the electric bass being so different to play than the upright bass that players making the transition probably didn't care about something like uneven string tension. We now have the luxury of being as nitpicks as we want to be.

Traditionally, electric bass D and G strings were made fatter in hopes of them sounding fatter. They suck to play on. I also prefer balanced tension string sets, and have bought sets from D'Addario and Stringjoy, as well as made them with D'Addario singles.

I'm gravitating more towards progressive tension, where the tension progressively gets lower string to string, from low strings to high strings. Keeps the low strings tight and the high strings more flexible and bendy.

It's a little bit more than this. Output varies as the square of the distance of the string from the pickup, not linearly. But it also varies as the mass of the string. So on a bass that has a flat top pickup, like a traditional Jazz Bass, but also has a significant crown radius, the D strings were made larger than the math might otherwise indicate so they would induce a signal that better matched the rest of the strings in the set across the crown radius of the bass. The G string was made heavier so it wouldn't twang out, and the E string was made a little thinner than the math might indicate so that it would still be flexible enough to vibrate in its overtones and better match the rest of the set tonally. To get the same feel on such a set, you just raise the E string a little bit more than the crown radius gauge indicates, and that will also equalize the output across the strings.

That was then. Now, basses are made generally with fret boards having a flatter crown radius, and some of the pickups, have either crowned or adjustable poles so you can match the crown radius or otherwise fine tune the response of the bass to the player.

Have you tried the D'Addario balanced tension sets? I gig the XL170BT adding a 130 B string tuned up to C. I have done this since these sets came out, and they are the most balanced tonally and by feel as any set I have played.

 

[Jon Moody]

It also makes sense from the perspective of the electric bass being so different to play than the upright bass that players making the transition probably didn't care about something like uneven string tension. We now have the luxury of being as nitpicks as we want to be.

I don't know about that. By and large, double bassists are far more picky about strings than electric players will be. They not only nitpick gauges, but will also put sets together from different brands to get their ideal set.

It would be akin to someone using a DR Legends G string, GHS Brite Flats D/A strings with a Pressurewound E.

 

[J Posega]

I don't know about that. By and large, double bassists are far more picky about strings than electric players will be. They not only nitpick gauges, but will also put sets together from different brands to get their ideal set.

It would be akin to someone using a DR Legends G string, GHS Brite Flats D/A strings with a Pressurewound E.

How many companies were making electric bass strings in the earliest days of the electric bass, though? I'm honestly curious. I know double bass players have more intense preferences, but they probably didn't have a whole lot of options for electric strings when they were making that transition. I could be wrong, though, I dunno much about the history of electric bass strings.

Either way, "because it's tradition" is a lame reason for string sets that feel bad to play on. Personally, I haven't heard anyone who's tried balanced tension strings say they like traditional tension string sets better.

Have you tried the D'Addario balanced tension sets? I gig the XL170BT adding a 130 B string tuned up to C. I have done this since these sets came out, and they are the most balanced tonally and by feel as any set I have played.

I use their .107 E and .095 E balanced sets on a few of my basses.

I also put together a balanced set of their NYXL strings. If they had medium scale balanced sets that fit on my Warmoth 32" basses, I'd use them on those too. Instead, I built balanced sets with Stringjoy.

My Dingwall Super P5 has a set of balanced Elixir strings that I put together.

My short scale basses have La Bella flats on them which feel pretty good. The Chromes on my Bronco are very clearly unbalanced and one of the reasons I don't play it much (besides that I don't like the stickiness of the Chromes).

 

[Jon Moody]

How many companies were making electric bass strings in the earliest days of the electric bass, though? I'm honestly curious. I know double bass players have more intense preferences, but they probably didn't have a whole lot of options for electric strings when they were making that transition. I could be wrong, though, I dunno much about the history of electric bass strings.

There were at least a couple. Most of them were classical string makers breaking into this new idea for a more portable bass, and repurposing banjo strings to use on electric guitars.

But another thing to note is that DB players going over to EB, especially in the 50s/60s had a lot more finger strength and thick calloused fingers, that would've probably rendered any tension changes on a smaller (to them) EB rather moot.

Either way, "because it's tradition" is a lame reason for string sets that feel bad to play on.

No argument here. "We've always done it this way" is one of the most dangerous phrases in the world.

One thing you mentioned though; string sets that feel bad to play on. That is wholly up to the person playing, and probably one of the big reasons why there aren't more production-level balanced tension sets.

Sure, you could make an argument that a person that's played a typical 45-105 set doesn't know what they're missing with a balanced tension set. But conversely, if they're happy and see no reason to change, is that so bad either?

Personally, I haven't heard anyone who's tried balanced tension strings say they like traditional tension string sets better.

Then let me be the first.

Seriously though, I find that it depends on the instrument. A more "traditional" P or J bass, to me, feels better with your typical 45-105 or 40-100 set (I opt for the latter). My more "modern" basses or ones with a flatter fingerboard radius, work better with a more balanced set.

Or I get crazy and do a mix of hex core and round core Bass Boomers on my 7st, to dial in the feel that I want.

 

[JimmyM]

D’addario is an offender, but they also started offering balanced tension sets. Plus they sell singles so you can make your own.

Anyway, I have no idea how or why it happened that string gauges became divisible by 5 and spaced out in.020 increments. It’s almost insulting. Wasn’t always the case, either.

 

[Ricky Rioli]

Plus they sell singles so you can make your own

....helped by the tension info on the website.

Prompted by enjoying the 45-60-80-105 custom set of Chromes often recommended here, I put together a 50-65-85-110 set of Pro Steels. The range of tensions is too wide to be considered balanced, its more an answer to the disappointment I often felt with the E and G strings on typical 45-65-85-105 sets of rounds. Zero disappointment with the sound of these, but a very low action is doing a lot to keep things comfortable.

I've just looked at what the tensions would be for a 45-60-80-105 set of Pro Steels, and they suggest that there should be more of a nicely balanced feel.

Some figures for those who enjoy them:

Chromes 45-60-80-105 — 47 + 46 + 48 + 43
Chromes 45-65-85-105 — 47 + 54 + 52 + 43

Pro Steels 45-60-80-105 — 42 + 38 + 39 + 37
Pro Steels 50-65-85-110 — 49 + 47 + 44 + 40

 

[JimmyM]

....helped by the tension info on the website.

Prompted by enjoying the 45-60-80-105 custom set of Chromes often recommended here, I put together a 50-65-85-110 set of Pro Steels. The range of tensions is too wide to be considered balanced, its more an answer to the disappointment I often felt with the E and G strings on typical 45-65-85-105 sets of rounds. Zero disappointment with the sound of these, but a very low action is doing a lot to keep things comfortable.

I've just looked at what the tensions would be for a 45-60-80-105 set of Pro Steels, and they suggest that there should be more of a nicely balanced feel.

Some figures for those who enjoy them:

Chromes 45-60-80-105 — 47 + 46 + 48 + 43
Chromes 45-65-85-105 — 47 + 54 + 52 + 43

Pro Steels 45-60-80-105 — 42 + 38 + 39 + 37
Pro Steels 50-65-85-110 — 49 + 47 + 44 + 40

Man, not even dead on tension matches could make a 50-110 set easy to play for me!

 

[Ricky Rioli]

Man, not even dead on tension matches could make a 50-110 set easy to play for me!

Since I play with a very light touch, more nudging the string into life as I pass by than plucking it, heavy gauges are fine, so long as the string is very responsive, producing a nicely rich tone despite the lack of force.

For example 45-105 Chromes work for me, but 49-109 LaBellas and 40-100 Roto flats only came to life once I was getting my fingers working outside their comfort zone. Just thinking about the monels and my fingers are aching

One thing I'm wondering: how far into their lifecycle do Chromes hang onto their nervy feel? Obviously the brightness will go early, has already mellowed out; will there be a point when the strings stop being so responsive to touch? If so, when.....? Replacing an addiction to fresh Rotosound rounds with an addiction to fresh Daddario flats would be

 

[JimmyM]

Since I play with a very light touch, more nudging the string into life as I pass by than plucking it, heavy gauges are fine, so long as the string is very responsive, producing a nicely rich tone despite the lack of force.

For example 45-105 Chromes work for me, but 49-109 LaBellas and 40-100 Roto flats only came to life once I was getting my fingers working outside their comfort zone. Just thinking about the monels and my fingers are aching

One thing I'm wondering: how far into their lifecycle do Chromes hang onto their nervy feel? Obviously the brightness will go early, has already mellowed out; will there be a point when the strings stop being so responsive to touch? If so, when.....? Replacing an addiction to fresh Rotosound rounds with an addiction to fresh Daddario flats would be

I think they vary in time depending on the string, with the low strings giving it up after a few months and the G string hanging on for dear life as long as it possibly can. I used to use Chromes and liked them except for that.

 

[Ricky Rioli]

....with the low strings giving it up after a few months....

Thank you, that's very useful info — I can live with that.

So long as I pay US prices rather than UK prices. Here in the UK, my 45-65-85-105 set cost the equivalent of $98. I've been intending to do a big order of Pro Steels from the US anyway.

 

[Ricky Rioli]

"Do you want a very tense D string?" I asked. "If so, Daddario have lots of options for you!" I went on.

Well, I need to withdraw my mockery

I've a bass with a truss rod that can only control about 130 lbs total tension. I put on a set of the 35-95 Roto Bass rounds. Overall the feel was better than I hoped, but through the split pickup the G and D were seeming ever more weedy.

When comparing like with like, Daddario's Pro Steels have lower tension than Rotosound rounds, allowing their "super light" 40-60-75-95 set to have no more total tension than the 35-95 Roto Bass.

I'm now trying that Pro Steel instead ... and I'm genuinely appreciative of the heavier D string!

The extra firmness is nicely countering the drop off caused by the split pickup: the intensity of the tone is now staying consistent as I go up.

40–60–75–95 — 30 + ☆38☆ + 33 + 29

I've been schooled