Does 48v Phantom power cause harm if turned on accidentally?

[SamJ]

So

I have a great little mixer that's been reliable for weeks now, an SSL SiX that I've been using for my bass .. I accidentally hit the Phantom power 48v switch (darn switch isn't guarded!!!).. and that causes some odd noises on the channel into my headphones but then shortly after that I began getting a "overdriven" or distorted sound on the channels (both super analogue channels).. for about 3-4 hours, which then went away and hasn't come back...

Permanent damage? or maybe a capacitor that needed time to heal?

I would like to imagine that these circuits are designed to be idiot proof, but maybe not? I know you can damage a good quality ribbon mic with phantom power, but what about the XLR output on an amp? or the pre-amp on a mixer?

Thanks for any constructive input.

 

[agedhorse]

If the XLR output is truly protected from phantom power then there’s no problem.

If the output is not protected, then yes, damage can occur.

 

[SamJ]

If the XLR output is truly protected from phantom power then there’s no problem.

If the output is not protected, then yes, damage can occur.

right, so there's no universal or CE/UL type requirement to protect such circuits... Like I said, I get that certain mic's can't be protected... Good to know, it's scary how they don't protect the phantom power switches on some equipment.. A guard switch, or at a minimum a 2-throw operation?

 

[agedhorse]

At some point, it’s impractical to protect against every possible fault. If an output is intended to be used on an input with phantom power present, it should be protected (unlike the old days). If an output is generally not used in an application where phantom power may be present, it isn’t necessary. This assumes the user understands how their gear works.

Switching phantom power on with the levels up is not a good thing. This is well known and quite a bit of pro level equipment does not include remedial warnings because it’s assumed that a user of that type of gear will understand these basic operating conditions.

 

[SamJ]

At some point, it’s impractical to protect against every possible fault. If an output is intended to be used on an input with phantom power present, it should be protected (unlike the old days). If an output is generally not used in an application where phantom power may be present, it isn’t necessary. This assumes the user understands how their gear works.

Switching phantom power on with the levels up is not a good thing. This is well known and quite a bit of pro level equipment does not include remedial warnings because it’s assumed that a user of that type of gear will understand these basic operating conditions.

I noticed many mixers have a universal phantom power, and not channel by channel... so then if someone wants to power a single condenser mic, but then wants to input a few other things, such as guitars and keyboards... them what? Out of luck? Strange design concept, but glad I learned about it here.

 

[bassbrad]

I noticed many mixers have a universal phantom power, and not channel by channel... so then if someone wants to power a single condenser mic, but then wants to input a few other things, such as guitars and keyboards... them what? Out of luck? Strange design concept, but glad I learned about it here.

That is common on consumer level goods to keep production simple and costs down, pro level boards will have individual or banks of switched phantom power.
The noise you heard was the 48v charge that was sent through the xlr connections into whatever you had connected that floated in the wiring until it eventually dissipated.

 

[agedhorse]

I noticed many mixers have a universal phantom power, and not channel by channel... so then if someone wants to power a single condenser mic, but then wants to input a few other things, such as guitars and keyboards... them what? Out of luck? Strange design concept, but glad I learned about it here.

Phantom power is harmless to 99.9% of devices properly interfaced. Keyboards for example would interface through a direct box which rejects phantom power, dynamic mics inherently reject phantom power.

When phantom power is present globally, it’s essential that the volumes be down to prevent damage from loud transients that occur from patching with phantom power being present.

 

[ialma]

Late reply but YES.
I partially fried a preamp (respected and expensive boutique pedal) because soundman had the phantom on and the pedal had no protection against Phantom power.
No comment

 

[Zbysek]

Late reply but YES.
I partially fried a preamp (respected and expensive boutique pedal) because soundman had the phantom on and the pedal had no protection against Phantom power.
No comment

Sorry to hear that.

Which preamp?

 

[Averell]

Protected or not, I always use a TritonAudio Phantom Blocker, just in case. Better safe than sorry.

 

[agedhorse]

Protected or not, I always use a TritonAudio Phantom Blocker, just in case. Better safe than sorry.

If the output is properly designed, there is zero reason to use this because there is zero risk.

This is the difference between gear that's designed and built to handle the real world rigors of the road and gear that's not.

 

[Averell]

If the output is properly designed, there is zero reason to use this because there is zero risk.

I totally agree. But, as a consumer, how can I be sure that the output is properly designed ? I guess (it's only a guess) my Eich amp is properly designed, and have all the safety nets an amp should have, but the phantom power protection is never included in the specs sheets. How can I be sure ?

I have three SushiBox DIs, I'm pretty sure that two of them are protected (a SB Nobelium and a Grand Slampegg), cause @Sushi Box FX confirmed it, but for the third one (a Finally v2 pre WBIM), I'm not that confident.

I agree, that kind of stuff is useless... until
it is. And it's kinda cheap, has no negative effects. So I’ll continue to use it. It’s just like an insurance : it’s expensive until you need it.

 

[agedhorse]

I include phantom protection in all of my spec sheets as well as screen printed next to the XLR jack. So do some others like Genzler.

Incomplete specs/information is another issue endemic to the bass and guitar amp (and especially pedal) industry imo.

 

[Averell]

I include phantom protection in all of my spec sheets as well as screen printed next to the XLR jack. So do some others like Genzler.

Thank you for that!

Incomplete specs/information is another issue endemic to the bass and guitar amp (and especially pedal) industry imo.

Not only in the music industry. Incomplete specs is a plague in all industries.

 

[Sushi Box FX]

I have three SushiBox DIs, I'm pretty sure that two of them are protected (a SB Nobelium and a Grand Slampegg), cause @Sushi Box FX confirmed it, but for the third one (a Finally v2 pre WBIM), I'm not that confident.

I should clarify that better. Every D.I. I've built back to Finally v1 was safe to use with phantom power in that it was not susceptible to damage from phantom power. The update that I refer to as "phantom power blocking" was implemented because some users reported noise in the circuit when phantom power was applied. This wasn't happening to everyone, not all phantom power is created equally, but the later units were designed around blocking this noise. No D.I. I've ever made can be damaged by phantom power.

 

[Averell]

I should clarify that better. Every D.I. I've built back to Finally v1 was safe to use with phantom power in that it was not susceptible to damage from phantom power. The update that I refer to as "phantom power blocking" was implemented because some users reported noise in the circuit when phantom power was applied. This wasn't happening to everyone, not all phantom power is created equally, but the later units were designed around blocking this noise. No D.I. I've ever made can be damaged by phantom power.

Great ! Thanks for that.