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Does a 4-string bass become obsolete after picking up a 5-string?

#521
Is this horse dead yet?

I think this has been covered ad nauseam by others already (not going to read 26 pages of posts). I mainly use and prefer a 5 string. I like 5 strings in standard tuning and it gets me by in most situations. However, I would use a 4 string for Drop D with a lot of bass chords ("Sober" by Tool comes to mind). Drop D with fingerstyle, I prefer 5 still.
 
#522
JimmyM said:
Upright basses sometimes come in 5-string, and some have a C extension for the E string. So yes.
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5 string uprights are designed for a nine piece bass section to drone out low notes. Or Beethoven's 6th to create a rumble - but no real articulation. Uprights were often 3 strings with a low F # or an A.

I find that the low string if not used properly can be very non musical. Can't just go down low and play a pattern in low C as if though those are the "same" notes just an octave lower. Carl Kaye who does not like 5 strings makes the point a note an octave down is not the same note.
 
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#524
7615 said:
5 string uprights are designed for a nine piece bass section to drone out low notes. Or Beethoven's 6th to create a rumble - but no real articulation. Uprights were often 3 strings with a low F # or an A.

I find that the low string if not used properly can be very non musical. Can't just go down low and play a pattern in low C as if though those are the "same" notes just an octave lower. Carl Kaye who does not like 5 strings makes the point a note an octave down is not the same note.
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You are preaching to the choir. I'm not a huge 5-string fan either. For that very reason. But you asked the question...
 
#526
Watchootognbout said:
And then given his genius/madness he may have found a use for the extra notes.
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5 extra notes at the top of the bass - probably

The low notes played at fast tempos are not that helpful - - fast moving low notes can cause a feel but are not that articulate. When Jaco got going he moved into middle ground and up. Not a stranger to above the 12th.
 
#527
7615 said:
5 extra notes at the top of the bass - probably

The low notes played at fast tempos are not that helpful - - fast moving low notes can cause a feel but are not that articulate. When Jaco got going he moved into middle ground and up. Not a stranger to above the 12th.
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Having an extra high string does more than add five extra notes... it opens up very many options for chord voicings that are simply not available or practical with a four string.

It's all speculation of course... but I prefer to speculate that he may have embraced new options, he was a master of creativity and exploration of the instrument and musical boundaries.
 
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#528
unbridled said:
Use and love both.

Isn't the answer to this, and similar questions, every time they come up, "personal choice?"
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That is the obvious answer. Also does one play written music that calls for it.

I play some baroque chamber music where the word double bass has meaning - the bass an octave down doubled up. I forgo the C but a lot of the music has low D's so by d tuning the upright I can double up 99% of the cello parts.

Also depends on the type of music and the other instruments. In a classic 3 piece bass drums guitar - the 5th string does not work, in my experience, if it is used to create a 2 octave separation between the bass and the guitar. Low notes are good on slow songs and endings , intros. I experimented with a BEAD for about a year and outside of technical issues of amplification - I found myself at the fifth fret as my home and the B was used on occasional songs. After a year I wanted my sacrificed bass back as a regular four string.

I played with a guy in an orchestra who permanently tuned D A D G and that made a lot of sense.

What I have noticed is I like the D sound on a D tuned E string more than the sound of the D on a B string. Was that just peculiar to my set up or anyone else notice a difference.
 
#529
Double E said:
Having an extra high string does more than add five extra notes... it opens up very many options for chord voicings that are simply not available or practical with a four string.

It's all speculation of course... but I prefer to speculate that he may have embraced new options, he was a master of creativity and exploration of the instrument and musical boundaries.
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Well he did have plenty of opportunity to get a 5-string and never did.
 
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#530
JimmyM said:
Well he did have plenty of opportunity to get a 5-string and never did.
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Probably had no interest in the B and as a soloist those high notes on a C - I think he knew his instrument board with his eyes closed and probably was not interested in exploring the extreme ends of the bass range, I think he was actually using fretted basses for a change in sound - an exploration that offered him a whole new sound across the board.
 
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#531
7615 said:
What I have noticed is I like the D sound on a D tuned E string more than the sound of the D on a B string. Was that just peculiar to my set up or anyone else notice a difference.
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I've noticed that, too, on most 5's I've played. Longer scale lengths can help remedy that, but I am not a fan of the longer scale lengths it takes to keep that from happening. I use a very light 120 E on my one and only 5, which also helps get a little ring back into it, but I still hear it and prefer the drop-D route when going there, too.
 
#532
7615 said:
Probably had no interest in the B and as a soloist those high notes on a C - I think he knew his instrument board with his eyes closed and probably was not interested in exploring the extreme ends of the bass range, I think he was actually using fretted basses for a change in sound - an exploration that offered him a whole new sound across the board.
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Well, regardless of what you "think" he "probably" was interested in... I still would rather imagine that he would've tried some new stuff on a different medium.

While extended range basses were in existence at the time he was alive, they were still pretty rare. They were just beginning to hit mass production and boutique builders were also very few and far between.

Near the end of his time here, he was unfortunately not in a state of mind that would have led him to look outside of his comfort zone with the same wonderment that inspired him to rip the frets out of his bass when he was younger and more adventuresome.
 
#534
Double E said:
Well, regardless of what you "think" he "probably" was interested in... I still would rather imagine that he would've tried some new stuff on a different medium.

While extended range basses were in existence at the time he was alive, they were still pretty rare. They were just beginning to hit mass production and boutique builders were also very few and far between.

Near the end of his time here, he was unfortunately not in a state of mind that would have led him to look outside of his comfort zone with the same wonderment that inspired him to rip the frets out of his bass when he was younger and more adventuresome.
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What we think is irrelevant. What did he do? The proof is in the pudding.

He didn't try a fiver. That we know.

He was going back to fretted instruments so he had "interests".

Lot of great players never made a move towards 5 stringers.
 
#536
7615 said:
What we think is irrelevant. What did he do? The proof is in the pudding.

He didn't try a fiver. That we know.

He was going back to fretted instruments so he had "interests".

Lot of great players never made a move towards 5 stringers.
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Well, he was really like no other... I don't think anyone can really predict what might have been had he found his way through recovery from his maladies and lived to continue to explore the musical landscape.

Again, I prefer to leave the door to my imagination open. I am not insisting what might have been...just imagining. It would have been nice to see, regardless of how many strings were used.
 
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#537
Double E said:
Well, he was really like no other... I don't think anyone can really predict what might have been had he found his way through recovery from his maladies and lived to continue to explore the musical landscape.

Again, I prefer to leave the door to my imagination open. I am not insisting what might have been...just imagining. It would have been nice to see, regardless of how many strings were used.
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exactly. This argument is like saying "Jimi Hendrix never played a 7 or 8 string guitar, so you shouldn't either!"

Jaco and Jimi both died young... there is no way of knowing what they would or would not have done musically... And even more important than that, I don't see where it matters!
 
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#538
Blue Dragon said:
"
vindibona1 said: ↑
I can see why some people just don't bother with 5 string basses nor should they. In many cases not a necessity at all. But it can change everything. Once you go there with any seriousness it is so hard to turn back."
You say that like it's a negative, but I'm with you. I'm probably just not talented enough to be comfortable on both, so now I'm a 5er for life.
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It's not a negative. At least I didn't mean it that way. Not sure how to express it exactly, but I think what happens is that once you get acclimated well to a 5er as I did, what would be the motivation to even want to play a 4- unless the quality of the 4 is so much better than the 5 you have? Metaphorically it's like going from weed to coke [not that I have done either (square I know... never ever smoked either)]. Once you start the latter there is little point in the former (at least I presume as much).

So I suppose the title in the thread about a 4er being "obsolete" uses the wrong term. Perhaps the question should be "Is a 4 string bass superfluous"? In my case I'd have to say (at least in this moment) yes. My 4 string isn't lighter, easier to play, more versatile, better sounding or cooler looking than any of my 5 strings. I'd like to play it again, but can't think of a single reason as to why.
 
#539
The quick answer is no, never obsolete. I started with a Gibson EB-2 and now mostly play an SG. I also play a 35 inch scale Ken Smith 5-string when it's absolutely necessary or a Rob Allen MB-2 fretless (34 inch scale). Both instruments benefit from the longer scale length and get played differently to bring out their characteristics, but for the blues and R&B I play most, the Gibson's sound more musical to me. Going from the Ken Smith to the Gibson feels like going from driving a truck to a sports car.

I also don't think the low B, even with the longer scale lengths sounds particularly good and tends to make players lazy in their patterns. But, I mostly listen to jazz, blues, R&B and some country.
 
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