Enjoy the benefits of a premium membership!
Upgrade Account
-
TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
Join free Log in
Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.
Does anybody really need more than 500 watts?
- Thread starter Joe Nerve
- Start date
In the 90s I used to play out in small/medium sized clubs with an old Peavey TKO75. More recently, pre 'rona, I was playing through a Genzler 350 with a single 12 cab... a whopping 175 watts through the 8 ohm cab. This was with a sensible drummer, guitar player, keys, two horns, and a singer. When we played the occasional larger venue we had FOH support. I never struggled for volume at any time.
But as always, everyone's situation is different. But to answer your question - I never needed more than 175w!
But as always, everyone's situation is different. But to answer your question - I never needed more than 175w!
My 300 watt tube SVT will blow away any 1200 SS amp.
I have Aguilar tone hammer 500W and two Hartke hydrive 112 that gives me 500W and i never needed more, even so much.
Does anybody really need more than 500 watts?
Why, got some extra ya wanna sell/can send?
Why, got some extra ya wanna sell/can send?
It's like pop music, dude - there's not much truly original anymore.
I think of 'em as, "cover threads".
I think of 'em as, "cover threads".
- Feb 12, 2006
- 61,003
- 5
- 220,809
- Disclosures
- Development Engineer-Mesa Boogie, Development Engineer-Genzler (pedals), Product Support-Genz Benz
Knob position has little to do with how much output power is needed. In fact, a common trick used by quite a few amp designers is to intentionally design the circuit using pot tapers that provide most of the circuit gain in the first 50% of the control's rotation. This gives the impression that the amp is louder than it is. After 50%, the amp really doesn't get much louder.I never turned my 700 watt Carvin past 3. And when I had a 500 watt Carvin, I think I may have turned it up to 4, once. I'm pretty sure I'm going to go with the 500 but I'm not going to pull the trigger till I air this one out a bit. And what better place to do that. I love Talkbass.
100% amen to this. One of things that I really like about Genzler and Mesa are the linear gain and volume controls. I had a GK head for a bit and it drove me crazy - try to bump it up or down just a bit and it would over-respond every time.
IvanBassist
Commercial User
- Jun 8, 2008
- 3,744
- 11,129
- Disclosures
- Content Manager at Darkglass Electronics, Dingwall Guitars Artist
If you always have PA support for the bass, you could just even do a DI pedal and be done with it. No amp on stage.
If you use your amp mainly for stage monitoring, like i do, i doubt you’d need more than 500w. That can get LOUD depending on the amp and cab setup that you have.
A lot depends on the genre you play and how many members a band has, too
My understanding is, and someone correct me if I have it wrong....
An 800w amp doesn't put out all that much more volume than a 500w amp.
If you are thinking you might need more volume, you're better off with more speakers or an additional cab.
Manufacturers tend to be a little ambiguous with wattage specs anyway. E.g. the Hartke Kickback combos say they are "500 watts," but that really means 500w peak; it's 250w RMS. (Still plenty loud though.) In other cases, a "200 watt head" is really only putting out 140w when plugged into a single speaker, and only puts out 200w when two speakers are plugged in.
On a side note, if you don't have one already, I recommend you get a High Pass Filter. It cuts out low frequencies that muddy up your sound, and helps your amp work more efficiently.
Last but not least: These days, it seems like amps are primarily used as an on-stage monitor -- that is, if they're used at all. It's easier than ever to go ampless. Grab your preferred DI, and use the existing backline or PA to monitor.
I run a 800W GK amp. I never worry about having enough power or pushing the amp to its max.
I do play really really loud sometimes. I have played with loud bands, (guitar player using full stack) and have been told at the last minute that the PA is struggling and the bass will have to stand alone and not be put in the PA. So it is comforting to not have to worry.
I do play really really loud sometimes. I have played with loud bands, (guitar player using full stack) and have been told at the last minute that the PA is struggling and the bass will have to stand alone and not be put in the PA. So it is comforting to not have to worry.
- Oct 7, 2000
- 18,619
- 38,939
- Disclosures
- Endorsing artist: Musicman basses
Thanks for the reminder. I did 10 years of The Nerve, in just about every venue imaginable lest arenas (and MSG
), and never used anything outside of my Peavey TKO, which I'm pretty sure was only 150 watts. I think that memory settled this for me.
that's about my 'wattage' with one cabinet --- ~300w with two, smallish cabinets. it works fine for both types of gigs i'd generally play: small clubs with zero-to-minimum PA and the events with full PA support. 300w gets me the club stuff more than adequately. i could get by on the PA supported gigs with a small, monitor-only 100w combo...if that...
in my world: the bigger the event = less power/volume is needed from me.
i have plenty of 'stand-by power' if the need arose: just hasn't...for years!
I don't need 800W and in fact set my amp with the output restricted a bit because I could blow my cab if I were careless. On the 2-ohm setting into 4 ohms, my output is only ~600W, which is closer to my cab rating.
But I have an 800W amp because that's what it came with. It is only one of MANY features, most important being the sound of the amp. If it came in a 400W version, I would buy it, but it doesn't, so all those extra little unused watts just get to go to watt heaven. If it's an amp that is identical except for the power output, you may not need the 500W. Then again, you'd be operating on a different part of the output curve, so the sound may change.
We don't have to use all that power just because it's there, so if the other features are right, base the purchase on the other features and know that you have more power than you generally need.
But I have an 800W amp because that's what it came with. It is only one of MANY features, most important being the sound of the amp. If it came in a 400W version, I would buy it, but it doesn't, so all those extra little unused watts just get to go to watt heaven. If it's an amp that is identical except for the power output, you may not need the 500W. Then again, you'd be operating on a different part of the output curve, so the sound may change.
We don't have to use all that power just because it's there, so if the other features are right, base the purchase on the other features and know that you have more power than you generally need.
I often don't need the 800 watts. But when I have, I'm happy I have.
Watts are cheap these days , and lighter and easier to transport than more cabs.
Back in my youth I used an SWR workingmans 4004 into a 4x12 (? i think was a long time ago) Madison Cab. I played in a very loud punk band with 2 guitarists running Marshall half stacks and a hard hitting drummer and rarely had good PA support. Kept up just fine with 400 watts.
If its a full 500 watts hitting a good speaker cab, no. Most 8 ohm cabs will cut down an amps full potential though, not many 4 ohm cabs around that aren't 810s.
380 watts into a 212 or 410 is fine but there is definitely a ceiling to that power in a full size rock band.
380 watts into a 212 or 410 is fine but there is definitely a ceiling to that power in a full size rock band.
And a couple spinal discs in the process
I like my AI 2-channel and Genz Benz 9.0 for their features....it's a bonus to me they are 900 watts. not that i'll ever need that. I do play lots of outdoor gigs where there is no PA support and I have no trouble being heard at 50%
