Thinking about picking one up to get a fuller sound. I have a ten2 but lately I've been having so many problems getting a good sound. I use quasi-guts (olive G/D and Evah Weichs A/E) and I think that's part of the problem, but my sound has been kinda whiny and I'm thinking that a 15" might be better with the AI head. Any thoughts out there on this?
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Double Bass Does anyone use a 15" speaker?
- Thread starter ethnotime
- Start date
ET,
When I was playing through a B-15N(C) I had a variety of different 15" speakers. We used to swap out speakers for newer designs often. So I had a, Altec 421 8H Series II, a Gauss 15, and a JBL E140 in that cabinet. They all sounded good, but even then, I felt the 12's in the SB-12 sounded more articulate. Just my opinion.
Eminence and Fatial both make really excellent 15" speakers, so you can definitely build, or have someone build a 15" two way cabinet that sounds great. Duke LeJune designed and built the Audiokinesis TC 115AF that sounds superb with DB and EB. The trade with a 15 is that they weigh more than single 12's or 10's so the cabinet, will be a heavier. IMHO it's not so much about the speaker, as it is about the design of the cabinet, in combination with the speaker. There are certainly lots of choices that have a variety of different size drivers.
Ric
- Nov 24, 2008
- 4,343
- 7,163
- Disclosures
- Owner & designer, AudioKinesis; Auth. mfg, Big E (Home Audio only)
Thanks for the mention, Ric!
Imo the new king of the hill for double bass is Mike Arnopol's 8x5 BigE cab. And no, I don't get royalties on his sales! Just giving credit where I think it's due.
Not that I haven't tried to figure out how to compete with that cab, but it's an uphill battle!
Imo the new king of the hill for double bass is Mike Arnopol's 8x5 BigE cab. And no, I don't get royalties on his sales! Just giving credit where I think it's due.
Not that I haven't tried to figure out how to compete with that cab, but it's an uphill battle!
The size of the speaker makes little difference. It's the specific driver and how the cab is designed and implemented.
I used to think that the only speaker I liked was a 15" JBL K140. Had to be a K.
There are 15" drivers that are bright and punchy and some that are thick and lots of uber lows. It's not like it used to be where you could make generalized statements about the characteristics of different sized drivers.
Then I was building cabs with British ATC or Volt 10 inchers. 2 of them would beat the pants off of my K140.
I hated 12's.
Then I got an EA CXL12. Needed a lot of EQ. But I liked it better than my 10's.
Then I got one of Duke's Thunderchild 12's. That's when the clouds parted.WAY better than anything I'd ever played through.To be honest, for DB I liked it better than the 15.
Now I'm less fond of 15's for upright. I don't find them articulate enough.
Greenboy's fearless cabs are really nice, too. The 12 incher sounds way better than the 15 for DB in my opinion.(note to mods--I'm really not building Thunderchild or Greenboy cabs anymore---I'll take them off of my profile)
Thanks for the kind words about the 85, Duke.
The 85 has more powerful low end than the 15's I've played through. And a lot more punchy and articulate.
I used to think that the only speaker I liked was a 15" JBL K140. Had to be a K.
There are 15" drivers that are bright and punchy and some that are thick and lots of uber lows. It's not like it used to be where you could make generalized statements about the characteristics of different sized drivers.
Then I was building cabs with British ATC or Volt 10 inchers. 2 of them would beat the pants off of my K140.
I hated 12's.
Then I got an EA CXL12. Needed a lot of EQ. But I liked it better than my 10's.
Then I got one of Duke's Thunderchild 12's. That's when the clouds parted.WAY better than anything I'd ever played through.To be honest, for DB I liked it better than the 15.
Now I'm less fond of 15's for upright. I don't find them articulate enough.
Greenboy's fearless cabs are really nice, too. The 12 incher sounds way better than the 15 for DB in my opinion.(note to mods--I'm really not building Thunderchild or Greenboy cabs anymore---I'll take them off of my profile)
Thanks for the kind words about the 85, Duke.
The 85 has more powerful low end than the 15's I've played through. And a lot more punchy and articulate.
thanks for the replies.
Ric Vice: Yeah the 12s are likely more articulate: I had a berg ht112 and it was awesome paired with the AI.
Bassprofit: Yeah I have a problem of too much boom or too much treble. Unfortunately I don't have the 2-channel version though I am on the lookout for one. when I get one I'll investigate the blend option. Where I am the DPA gets a lot of love so I'll be checking those out soon.
Ric Vice: Yeah the 12s are likely more articulate: I had a berg ht112 and it was awesome paired with the AI.
Bassprofit: Yeah I have a problem of too much boom or too much treble. Unfortunately I don't have the 2-channel version though I am on the lookout for one. when I get one I'll investigate the blend option. Where I am the DPA gets a lot of love so I'll be checking those out soon.
Ethnotime,
I think the key word with that particular cabinet is "Bergantino" and not HT 112. Jim's one of a handful of builders, who get's how to design high end bass cabinets. One thing I can say, is that my preference is for cabinets with smaller diameter multiple drivers, rather than larger diameter single ones. At one time or another I've owned
A SWR Baby Blue 2x8 with two custom Bag End Drivers
A Flite Sound 2x8 with two NEAR liquid suspension aluminum drivers.
A LDS 2x8 Three Way with 2x8" B&C Neodymium drivers
A Euphonic Audio VL 208 with two custom Eminence 8" Drivers in a D'Appolito configuration.
I thought these cabinets were all great and then Duke came along with the TC 112. It was a game changer.
Mike's new cabinets have multiple smaller drivers, so I'm certainly thinking about getting one.
So don't be stuck on a particular size driver, just use your ears, and find what works for you.
Ric
- May 30, 2000
- 4,707
- 257
- Disclosures
- Creator of: iGigBook Sheet Music Manager
Absolutely! That's the beginning and the end of it. The question is akin to asking whether a six or eight cylinder engine is better. Check here for more.
I've been using the Full circle, but since I've been unhappy with the sound I tried the Gage pickup and it works well. I had an a-ha moment a few weeks ago when I had to set my amp up in front of me. My sound was coming right at me and it was terrible! Later I switched it up and it was fine but I realized that the sound that I hear when I'm above the amp is different than the sound when I'm in front. I never ever practice with the amp but I think I should also spend some time playing with the amp right in front of me so I can figure out a sound I can live with.
Ethnotime,
While I certainly have practiced with an amp on occasion, I think that the best thing for me is to play the instrument every day, so I'm always listening to how my bass sounds acoustically. When I play without an amp, I feel it plants the sound of the bass firmly in my hands and ears . That way the pickup and amp are just vehicles for reproducing what I'm already hearing in my head, regardless of the room. The Ten2 and Full Circle are just there to send it out to a bigger audience.
Ric
Allow me to retort: I found my self in the same spot when I switched to my current rig. I got an GK MB410 800watt 8 ohm cab and planned on getting a second identical cab so i could have an unltra light 8x10 set up. I went to GC usuing the same head i use (GK 700rb II) with the same 4x10 I owned. I then added the second 4x10 and played with it, wasnt getting the LOW END i was looking for, so I removed one of the 4x10 and then tried a the 4x10 with the mb115 underneath it and with in moments of trying this configuration I knew I had what i was looking for....
Plenty of folks out there flip out about mis matching speaker sizes blah blah blah but i believe that 10's and a 15 give you the best of both worlds. Also, Flea has been touring with 4x10's on top of 1x15's for 20 somthing years for a reason
Plenty of folks out there flip out about mis matching speaker sizes blah blah blah but i believe that 10's and a 15 give you the best of both worlds. Also, Flea has been touring with 4x10's on top of 1x15's for 20 somthing years for a reason
Allow me to retort: I found my self in the same spot when I switched to my current rig. I got an GK MB410 800watt 8 ohm cab and planned on getting a second identical cab so i could have an unltra light 8x10 set up. I went to GC usuing the same head i use (GK 700rb II) with the same 4x10 I owned. I then added the second 4x10 and played with it, wasnt getting the LOW END i was looking for, so I removed one of the 4x10 and then tried a the 4x10 with the mb115 underneath it and with in moments of trying this configuration I knew I had what i was looking for....
Plenty of folks out there flip out about mis matching speaker sizes blah blah blah but i believe that 10's and a 15 give you the best of both worlds. Also, Flea has been touring with 4x10's on top of 1x15's for 20 somthing years for a reason
Yes, but those specific successes are the not the result of driver size, per se. They are about the specific designs chosen. You are quite correct that any advice against mismatching driver sizes is without merit.
Also, Flea has been touring with 4x10's on top of 1x15's for 20 somthing years for a reason
I don't think flea's needs likely correspond with most of those on the DB forum.
Been using a single 15" JBL E140 for the better part of 25 years in an EV Folded cabnet. Love it.
In my early days I built a cab round an 18" and got (if I remember well) a good sound via a ribbon mic. These days two of my cabs - a Big E 45 and a PJB C4 have 5" drivers. Such is progress.
I took the liberty of looking at your profile, and there was no mention of you playing Double Bass. Do you, in fact, play upright? Reading you post, it appears you have wandered on to the Double bass amp thread, and posted an answer that would work on the Bass Guitar side. That does happen from time to time. Although the 4X10/115 is is a common BG cabinet configuration, it's not often that a Double Bassist will use that setup, as it's likely to generate low frequency feedback. The only DB set ups like the one your describing are for Rockabilly players, and even then they tend to use SVT's.
Plenty of folks out there flip out about mis matching speaker sizes blah blah blah but i believe that 10's and a 15 give you the best of both worlds. Also, Flea has been touring with 4x10's on top of 1x15's for 20 somthing years for a reason
Reading back through the thread, I didn't find any mention of someone recommending only using matched cabinets. So it's very curious why you even brought that into the discussion. Just wondering why you felt it was necessary.
Ric
Yes I didn’t realize this was a double bass thread ... have not played a DB in years ... I brought up the mis match speaker size thing because every time I bring up my cab combo I get a speech from someone about it
