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Does not being able to play jazz = being a poor bass player?

I suspect Mr. Johnson is having us on a bit.

You made a humongous leap to an individual who had not been named... of course I'm joking about Will. But one of my favorite stories is about a friend who could do all sorts of crazy polyrhythmic drumming, big fan of Will Kennedy and Dave Weckl. Wanted to do a more pop/r&b type gig so I got him on one. He struggled playing a basic backbeat and songs like "I'll Take You There" and Respect". Struggled. It was an eye-opener. I played with a fusion band in the early 80's that was into the Yellowjackets and were fascinated with early Level 42. At a rehearsal the other members expressed their disdain for James Brown. ITO his music was simple and nothing. So I asked them to play "Sex Machine". It was hilarious. And yes, they were familiar with the song.
:D

Yes, you could be a great sculptor and a horrible carpenter. I know that's at odds with conventional wisdom.
:D
 
I know we're all supposed to like Jazz and pretend that when we get home from a hard day of whatever it is we do for money, we kick off our shoes and recline in our favorite easy chair to Steps Ahead or some such. I've always been curious to know how many people really like Jazz versus how many just say they do because they think they're supposed to. I can get into some Jazz, but for the most part it isn't my first choice. No, I can't play it and I never really wanted to. But I agree completely with the person who commented that learning the theory behind it can only help you become a better player regardless of your preferred style.
In my view, very few people like jazz. In fact most people will find a polite way to say that they don't like it.

When people hear that I'm in a band, then I have to deal with the awkward conversation. They will try to be polite and sound enthusiastic, but you can tell they're really not into it. Or they list a bunch of restrictions on the kind of jazz that they like.
 
Playing Jazz won't make you a better musician. Only will make you a better Jazz musician.
Jazz music is not a race. You won't be better if you play Jazz. I have seen Jazz bands "unberable" and Rock bands that some Jazz band would kill for having their sound.
The only thing you can master is yourself. Playing something you don't find fall in love worth for won't take you that far.
I really dispise that believe of " Jazz musician, better musician" as much as I dispise " X Gender Musician, better musician"
I yet would love to see some "Jazz bassist" holding time as Adam Clayton's does
 
I've always heard that jazz players were the best, and if you take lessons from a jazz player, everything else is comparatively easy. I did just that for 4 1/2 years, and never got comfortable or good at playing jazz; perhaps it's simply out of my league or I'm just not interested enough to care. Either way, I'm in a great classic rock band, and that is all that matters to me. I'm blissful in my mediocrity.

Not necessary. You can put two bassist aside. Let's say a Jazz one and a Rock one. The rock one can have better tone. Better timing. Better " fulfillment"
Who cares if the Jazz one
Has better theory If the Rock one has better "playing"
And I have heard Jazz
Musician with really poor sounding. And empirical guys with practical No theory knowledge with a nice sound.
 
I'll be honest, if I have no other mechanism for evaluating a bassist, I tend to use his or her ability to play a walking line. That is my last resort. Other things (groove, serving the song, etc.) take precedence simply because there is typically no common metric I can apply!
~Nick von Nick
 
So many good answers.
I don't think you have to have ridiculous theory to play jazz, or most styles cept'n classical... to generalize.

If you have great feel and ear inherently, you can be a fine bass player without gobs of theory. ... a modicum of theory understood well, coupled with great time and some greasy funk, you can do anything your heart drive you to do.
I play middle eastern (a little), West african and Cuban (because of my wife), jazz, funk, motown, punk, post hardcore math rock, nerdy progressive stuff... I love Fugazi and Shellac as much as Zappa and Monk.
I suck at rock and metal.
It's because my heart isn't there.
Because I grew up on country, I can play it... somehow that same upbringing I heard loads of 70s am soft rock and 80s hair metal too. My heart isn't in that stuff and I struggle to play it unless a particular song catches my fancy.

I wouldn't expect Megadeth and Testament fans to have any interest in learning Grateful Dead songs, or Bembe' (any variation).
Could they, of course, why not. But if you're hearts not on it then why would you expect it to be easy.
If you do a lot of sub work in various genres, you gain the skills of just picking up what's happening in on the spot and improving until you find solid points. That isn't snobbery or excess... that's jazz. The last last last thing I want to play are standards out of the real book. That's not jazz to me, cos it's played out.... like Aerosmith or Ted Nugent.

As with nearly every question on TB, there is a lot of room for "it depends."
Yes, jazz has a reputation for being a demanding genre that requires a high level of competency. It is also true that many great bass players in other genres tend to dabble in jazz a little; whether that is because it presents a challenge, or because it offer a lot room for people that love the bass, I don't know.
What I have noticed is that jazz runs the gamut from pretty simple bass lines to extraordinarily difficult bass lines. Not all of it requires demi-god like skills. Working around the genre does seem to require a very strong foundation in music theory, and the ability to interpret instructions or sheet music almost instantly.
However, I don't think that means if a person doesn't have a deep understanding jazz, or invests a lot of time in learning jazz, they are a "poor" bass player. There is a snobbery that follows jazz around like a bad smell that may endeavor to make non-jazz players feel inadequate. That doesn't mean it is true. There are a lot of terrific bass players that may have been able to play jazz, but they weren't known for it.
I feel like unless a genre of music speaks to you, you can't really be excellent at it. If you don't "get" jazz, you could have the technical skill to do it but none of the passion to make it believable.

I started playing with a jazz guitarist on and off several years ago, over the last 2 years we've gigged more steadily, not much money but a heck of a lot of fun doing jazz, R&B, roots, blues and some funk as a duo.

I've always wanted to play jazz but never really got around to studying theory academically. My theory is more practical, essentially from playing. The guitarist likes what I do, so do I and we've had nothing but compliments from audience members so I guess we're doing something right. Best part is I'm always learning something new.

When I read the OP, my first thought was my long standing OPINION that jazz musicians are to "musicians" what Ty Cobb was to baseball, what Bob Dylan is to writing lyrics, what Marlon Brando was to acting, or. . .. you get the idea. Jazz musicians are at the top of their game, and must be. They don't play "little boy chords." Is Walter Fagen a decent keyboardist? That man is so deeply rooted in jazz that he ought to have leaves growing off his fingernails.

To answer the question, "Does not being able to play Jazz=Being a poor bassist?" Is like asking "since I can't write like Shakespeare, does that mean that I suck as a writer?" Of course not! If you can't play jazz well, that means one thing: you can't play jazz well.

And not for nothing, but Jazz doesn't do it for me. Never has. I completely appreciate the degree of talent those men and women possess; but that music gives me no joy. Sort of like Carlos Santana. I know the man is probably to guitar what Neil Peart is to drums, but listening to him gives me absolutely no pleasure. Call me daft, you won't hurt my feelings.

Anyways, don't sell yourself short. If you can't play jazz, it has nothing to do, IMO, with the bigger picture question of "are you a decent musician?"
 
The rock and jam band stuff I can play pretty well, but the jazz thing is something else entirely.

Over the past 30 odd years I've dabbled in it on occasion, and each time I get frustrated and stop.

Some stuff I can probably get through ok, but ultimately its just not a genre I play well at all, which sucks as I've always held being able to play that material as sort of being the gold standard for a bass player.

It doesn't mean you're bad, but it does mean that you have room to improve and grow! It is frustrating, yes, to try it and be completely terrible at it. (Speaking from experience.) No matter where you are or how good you are, as a musician there's always room to improve and there's always space to grow. If you have the drive and you recognize this fact, you can be where you want to be.

For what it's worth, you can replace "jazz" with any genre, and you can replace "bassist" with any profession.

It's okay to be frustrated! (Need to take my own advice.) Surround yourself with the most supportive, talented musicians you can, and just try to keep making progress.
 
Well, I guess I am a lousy bassplayer then. I have nothing to do with, on, off jazz... I can listen to it (the smooth, slow jazzy-like music), but playin does not interest me. :)
Rocker-metalhead to the bone? Nah, I just don't like it.
 
When the Funk-brothers had time off from Motown, they played the music they really liked. Jazz.
Some of the comments here state that if you can play jazz you can play (almost) anything.

Hard to argue with that if you know that James played "What's going on" intoxicated and flat on his back...in one take.
 
I guess that it depends...

Being a good player means , in my opinion, playing keeping the time, the groove, playing in tune with a consistent tone and serving the song. Most of the musicians I know find me a good bass player. Nobody cares if I can't play jazz . Most of the stuff I play is rock,pop, soul anf funk.

But if you want to be a more complete musician learning some jazz won't hurt..

Don't learn jazz if you feel obligated to learn it.. learn it because you want to

I'd love to play jazz .. but not on bass.. I like the vibe of piano (Art Tatum and Bill Evans) and the energy of the saxophone (Charlie Parker, John Coltrane and Cannonball Addeley)
 
Does not being able to play jazz = being a poor bass player?
No.
Playing Jazz is about more than being a bassist.
It's knowing what to do rather than knowing how to do it.
You can be an amazing bassist with no clue about Jazz.
I'd recommend learning about it however as it will open doors.
 
Did Peter Gregory's program not work for you ?


We tried...we had trouble rounding out a line up. We had everything all setup and were set to begin at the end of this month, than the drummer that he picked didn't realize he had to pay money for the workshop until we were all billed. I have no idea how the drummer missed that fine detail. Im not going to mention the price, but it was extremely reasonable...

Driving out to Long Island sucks, but I need to get out of Bucks County more often anyway, and the teacher of this workshop, is pretty cool and extremely talented (David Englehard), and in addition the other students in the ensemble seem like they are better players than what I would be able to interact with down here. Probably what I'll end up doing is just make a day of it by taking NJT up to Penn and spend the day in the city than take LIRR out to the studio this is at.

It's all good...
 
What defines a 'good bass player'?

I can play jazz if I need to. I studied it at university, but only to the level that I had to - I mostly focused on classical and musicology/orchestration. I wouldn't call myself a 'good' jazz player by any means - give me a chord chart to follow and I can do the basics. I have massive respect for jazz players but it doesn't really speak to me as a style - it just doesn't express me, not nearly as much as this kind of thing does.

That said, there are some valuable lessons to be learned from it, especially from the theory and harmony side, and the improvisational skills are useful as it helps train your ear. Like learning about any type of music that's outside your comfort zone, there are things to take and apply elsewhere. Does me not playing or understanding cha-cha, or tango, or yoruba or samba music, make me a less complete bassist and musician? Sure, I guess. Just like me not having read all of Dostoevsky's or Steinbeck's or Kafka's works makes me a less complete person overall.

It would be like me saying a jazz player who can't play fast metal like Lauri* in that video I linked to does is a poor bass player.

*perhaps an unfair comparison as Lauri is one of the best bass players/working musicians on earth and can pretty much play any style you throw at him, he's the definition of a 'complete player' in my book
 
The rock and jam band stuff I can play pretty well, but the jazz thing is something else entirely.

Over the past 30 odd years I've dabbled in it on occasion, and each time I get frustrated and stop.

Some stuff I can probably get through ok, but ultimately its just not a genre I play well at all, which sucks as I've always held being able to play that material as sort of being the gold standard for a bass player.

I do tolerably well playing jazz and Latin music, fine at rock and roots and American folk, but for the life of me I cannot master the Irish music I love best -- on the flute. The number of tunes you need to memorize, for starters.

Mastering a genre involves a number of different factors. With jazz, it's improvising over longer forms, playing with a good swing feel while maintaining a steady pulse that I think are the hardest. Then mastering the repertoire and the standard intros and codas in a variety of keys. Then getting the social skills together to manage well on the bandstand. I started playing jazz in my late teens. It's decades later and I'm still struggling. But the rewards of working with really expert players are considerable, so I keep at it!
 
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I can only speak for myself. The last thing I have ever thought I would be playing or even enjoying was Jazz. I grew up on Kiss, Scorpions, Malmsteen and so..... Not being an active player for a long time I thought this was kind of over for me. One day a customer came into the shop and my boss bragged about me being a musician! (at least he thought so) SO he asked me if I wanted to come to his studio for a jam session. I asked him what genre he was playing and when he said Jazz I automatically rejected the idea. I told him that I was playing Nursery rhimes mostly and Jazz wasn't even anything I had ever tried. He kept insisting.... Here I am a year later writing Jazz songs. Don't underestimate yourself. Give it a try. Listen to something that is catchy and turn it off then try to write a bass line on that theme. Works for me. Good luck.
 
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