• TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
    Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
    Join free Log in
    Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.

Does this make sense? Is it an upgrade? Mesa vs Genz Benz

the federalist

the federalist

Aug 10, 2014
540
1,154
#1
I own a Genz Benz Shuttle Max 9.2. I like how it sounds and it's versatility, although I've always been a little overwhelmed by the sheer variety of possible settings. Never had a moment's problem with this unit.

I'm considering purchase of a used Mesa Subway TT-800. When I have my "Buying Stuff is Fun (For At Least A Day Or Two)" hat on, I think about how much I like Mesa products and that it's a newer unit. When I put on my "Think Objectively About This" hat I'm burdened by the notion that the two amps are quite similar: both hybrid, similar power, similar size/weight. I'd sell the Genz Benz but would still end up spending a non-trivial amount for the Mesa.

One of the things I tell myself is that the Mesa has a High Pass Filter control, which I'd like to have. Do the three Global Signal Shape controls on the Genz Benz accomplish the same feat? I assume they do but am not 100 percent certain.

Can someone provide perspective on this? Thanks!
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: DJ Bebop, HowieD72, jeff7bass and 1 other person
#2
the federalist said:
I own a Genz Benz Shuttle Max 9.2. I like how it sounds and it's versatility, although I've always been a little overwhelmed by the sheer number of possible settings. Never had a moment's problem with this unit.

I'm considering purchase of a used Mesa Subway TT-800. When I have my "Buying Stuff is Fun (For At Least A Day Or Two)" hat on, I think about how much I like Mesa products and that it's a newer unit. When I put on my "Think Objectively About This" hat I'm burdened by the notion that the two amps are quite similar: both hybrid, similar power, similar size/weight. I'd sell the Genz Benz but would still end up spending a non-trivial amount for the Mesa.

One of the things I tell myself is that the Mesa has a High Pass Filter control, which I'd like to have. Do the three Global Signal Shape controls on the Genz Benz accomplish the same feat? I assume they do but am not 100 percent certain.

Can someone provide perspective on this? Thanks!
Click to expand...
You'll sell the genz
 
#3
I had a 9.2 and think it was a very good amp for the day.
I felt it was high passed a little higher than I liked though.
Considering new technology as well as what Andy has learned, I think you will like the Mesa better.
 
  • Like
Reactions: DJ Bebop
#4
the federalist said:
I own a Genz Benz Shuttle Max 9.2. I like how it sounds and it's versatility, although I've always been a little overwhelmed by the sheer number of possible settings. Never had a moment's problem with this unit.

I'm considering purchase of a used Mesa Subway TT-800. When I have my "Buying Stuff is Fun (For At Least A Day Or Two)" hat on, I think about how much I like Mesa products and that it's a newer unit. When I put on my "Think Objectively About This" hat I'm burdened by the notion that the two amps are quite similar: both hybrid, similar power, similar size/weight. I'd sell the Genz Benz but would still end up spending a non-trivial amount for the Mesa.

One of the things I tell myself is that the Mesa has a High Pass Filter control, which I'd like to have. Do the three Global Signal Shape controls on the Genz Benz accomplish the same feat? I assume they do but am not 100 percent certain.

Can someone provide perspective on this? Thanks!
Click to expand...
You don't need it. You want it!
 
  • Like
Reactions: Hectobar, Kenny056, mikewalker and 7 others
#8
agedhorse said:
The HPF on the ShuttleMax is ~30Hz, there’s no benefit to going lower and perhaps some benefit to going higher.
Click to expand...


I was under the impression the L.F. Boost changed the knee of the HPF? I don't have the manual for the Shuttle max 9.2, but assume it operates about the same as the GBE1200.

From the GBE1200 manual:
The “L.F. EXTEND” (low frequency extend) lowers the low frequency roll-off response of the preamp (between 30 and 45 Hz)
​
An observation: The front panel does not actually have a L.F. Extend control; rather the control is labeled "L.F. Boost"
 
  • Like
Reactions: DJ Bebop
#9
the federalist said:
I own a Genz Benz Shuttle Max 9.2. I like how it sounds and it's versatility, although I've always been a little overwhelmed by the sheer variety of possible settings. Never had a moment's problem with this unit.

I'm considering purchase of a used Mesa Subway TT-800. When I have my "Buying Stuff is Fun (For At Least A Day Or Two)" hat on, I think about how much I like Mesa products and that it's a newer unit. When I put on my "Think Objectively About This" hat I'm burdened by the notion that the two amps are quite similar: both hybrid, similar power, similar size/weight. I'd sell the Genz Benz but would still end up spending a non-trivial amount for the Mesa.

One of the things I tell myself is that the Mesa has a High Pass Filter control, which I'd like to have. Do the three Global Signal Shape controls on the Genz Benz accomplish the same feat? I assume they do but am not 100 percent certain.

Can someone provide perspective on this? Thanks!
Click to expand...


Despite the similarities, I would expect these two amps two have their own unique voicing and character. So if you really love your Shuttlemax, there is no guarantee that you will like the TT-800 better, or even as much. Of you may be totally blown about by the TT-800, or one of the other Subway amps...it really comes down to your personal tastes.

Your best bet would be to audition the TT-800 and any other amp your are considering.
 
  • Like
Reactions: DJ Bebop, Mark Karwan, Omega Monkey and 2 others
#10
It's been a long time since I played or even heard Genz Benz heads, but my sense is that the TT is going to be a much different machine tone and voicing-wise based on what I recall. With that thought in mind, I would definitely try to listen to a TT in person (or in some good videos) before making the decision.

The TT voicing and feel was inspired by some very specific Mesa heads - which I think it does justice to with some notable improvements. While it clearly benefits from agedhorse's ongoing innovation in bass amp design, it is not IMO simply an evolution of the Genz Benz product line with a Mesa nameplate.

The variable HPF is just one of number of great features on the TT and is nicely integrated into the preamp voicing circuit design. I think my HPF-Pre Series 3 is a dynamite outboard variable HPF, but believe having that functionality integrated into the amp's controls optimizes its utility for tone shaping. YMMV!
 
  • Like
Reactions: John D Harris, DJ Bebop, DrThumpenstein and 3 others
#11
Everybody's situation is different. If I was gigging on a regular basis then I would always have two heads at my disposal. That means if I had the GB and money was no object, I might buy the Mesa and just keep them both. If money was an object, I would order the Mesa and if I liked it better than the GB, I'd sell the GB and buy a cheaper backup like a TCE head to keep in the bag. Yes I hate the thought of going direct. If I still liked the GB better than the Mesa, just return Mesa. Trade in values are bad at stores right now sadly because of the COVID. Selling the GB outright should net you around 500-550. Trading it in at a store, maybe 200 - 250. In Illinois, you don't pay a sales tax when your trade in gear for new gear though. That saves you around 10 percent.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Al Kraft
#12
To further complicate the situation, I didn't reveal that I already own a Subway D-800. Very much like it. It's my number one with the Shuttle Max in reserve (although I often use it "for old times sake".)

I was thinking of replacing the Shuttle Max with the TT-800. Currently leaning that way based on your comments and a (partial) reread of the TT-800 massive thread.
 
  • Like
Reactions: jeff7bass, Camaro69, Wasnex and 2 others
#13
Wasnex said:
I was under the impression the L.F. Boost changed the knee of the HPF? I don't have the manual for the Shuttle max 9.2, but assume it operates about the same as the GBE1200.

From the GBE1200 manual:
The “L.F. EXTEND” (low frequency extend) lowers the low frequency roll-off response of the preamp (between 30 and 45 Hz)
​
An observation: The front panel does not actually have a L.F. Extend control; rather the control is labeled "L.F. Boost"
Click to expand...
Yes, I should have been more clear. First, the control was originally named LF Extend, but somehow players couldn't grasp the concept of low frequency extension (at that time anyway) so it was renamed.

With the LF extend on the ShuttleMax fully clockwise, the -3dB point is at ~29Hz which is as low as any reasonable cabinet can handle at that kind of power. Without the LF extend engaged, the response is closer to 45Hz (actually I think it's around 42Hz but with tolerances it's going to be +/- 5% at best).

Most folks find that the HPF set to around 45-50Hz work the best on the Subway amps for many cabinets but on the "super cabs", 30-40Hz is fine.

As you can tell, I have been playing around with the concept of HPF's for quite some time.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Geri O, daddymactx, HowieD72 and 20 others
#14
This doesn't sound like a "will it be better" situation. There's no need to look for/ rationalize a reason. The Shuttle Max is a superb amp. The Mesa is a newer, superb amp. Go ahead and make changes if you would like to......or not...no need to overthink it :-) FWIW, I'd MUCH prefer a Shuttle max 9.2 to a D800 (and I have owned both).
 
  • Like
Reactions: HowieD72, Omega Monkey, DrMole and 4 others
#17
the federalist said:
To further complicate the situation, I didn't reveal that I already own a Subway D-800. Very much like it. It's my number one with the Shuttle Max in reserve (although I often use it "for old times sake".)

I was thinking of replacing the Shuttle Max with the TT-800. Currently leaning that way based on your comments and a (partial) reread of the TT-800 massive thread.
Click to expand...
In that case the risk is less because you already have an amp you like better than the GB. IMO it makes sense to sell the GB and buy the TT-800 because of that fact. Old times sake isn't really enough, eh? Not when the new hottie is giving you the look.
 
#19
FronTowardEnemy said:
Man, I would never think of getting rid of my SM 9.2.

Just saying.
Click to expand...

I've thought exactly the same way about many things, up to the time that I didn't. Happily (for me), I can't think of a single instance of remorse when I've sold an item (even on a whim) I've really been attached to.

That said, I continue to struggle with the belief that purchasing something new will bring lasting gratification. It's odd that past experience doesn't discourage me from thinking this next time will be the charm when it's never worked before.
 
  • Haha
Reactions: daddymactx

Latest posts

Top Bottom
Back