And/or, just rent "The Blues Brothers".
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Dondald "Duck" Dunn's technique
- Thread starter manutabora
- Start date
And/or, just rent "The Blues Brothers".
Try playing the Bb on the E string instead of the A string. That will allow you to play this figure without shifting positions.
There is a WHOLE lot of truth to that. Invariably when I'm playing with a band and the groove isn't happening, it's because at least one of the players and/or singers is in too big of a hurry to get from one note to the next. If everybody will just give that first beat its full worth (and maybe just a tich extra), the rest of the bar tends to come out a lot better. Almost always better to be a tad late getting to the 2 than to be there too early.
Get a recording of Aretha's :The House that Jack Built" And break it down, until you can play exact with the drum kit. Duck is about 2 and 4, and is all the old soul and R&B material, Chuck Rainey, Willy Weeks, etc.. Check out Jamerson doing this stuff- amazing how he could change the feel of the tune with simple note placement- laid back here, on time there, ahead right before the bridge, etc.
A laid back feeling is the 4, not the 1. But the whole laid back R&B thing is not built on the one it is built on 2 and 4. Funk is more about the 1. Go find you some old soul or motown drum loops and work with them.
Do this- walk in or march in place, in tempo, with a metronome playing- left foot on 1 & 3, right on 2 & 4. When you got that tight, then do this: Clap on all the beats, exactly with your feet. Can't do it, huh? Few can. But work at it, until you have you hands, feet and the metronome all tight & together. Next, clap on just 2 & 4. Make that nice & tight, too, until you can do it at different tempos and keep it together with and without the metronome.
Now you are halfway there: the next part is to sing your bass part while clapping your hands or marching- it's not the pitch that counts, it is the rhythm. Do this until you can feel where the bass notes fall in time.
Now go do the thing carol Kaye talks about- play, while tapping your foot on 2 & 4. that is where the groove is. By the time you have this down, you will know how to lay back and push.
Groove comes from your body, not your head- learn to feel the groove of the song before you play a single note.
A laid back feeling is the 4, not the 1. But the whole laid back R&B thing is not built on the one it is built on 2 and 4. Funk is more about the 1. Go find you some old soul or motown drum loops and work with them.
Do this- walk in or march in place, in tempo, with a metronome playing- left foot on 1 & 3, right on 2 & 4. When you got that tight, then do this: Clap on all the beats, exactly with your feet. Can't do it, huh? Few can. But work at it, until you have you hands, feet and the metronome all tight & together. Next, clap on just 2 & 4. Make that nice & tight, too, until you can do it at different tempos and keep it together with and without the metronome.
Now you are halfway there: the next part is to sing your bass part while clapping your hands or marching- it's not the pitch that counts, it is the rhythm. Do this until you can feel where the bass notes fall in time.
Now go do the thing carol Kaye talks about- play, while tapping your foot on 2 & 4. that is where the groove is. By the time you have this down, you will know how to lay back and push.
Groove comes from your body, not your head- learn to feel the groove of the song before you play a single note.
It might be more fun to simply find a dance partner. The groove is in the mutual thrill of the chase. 
We are talking about music created for dancing, afterall! Duck is great, wonderful sound, but I doubt that he ever played anything original without first being instructed by his band mates, much like Rocco Prestia. Just my .02
We are talking about music created for dancing, afterall! Duck is great, wonderful sound, but I doubt that he ever played anything original without first being instructed by his band mates, much like Rocco Prestia. Just my .02
Jazzdogg
Less barking, more wagging!
It might be more fun to simply find a dance partner. The groove is in the mutual thrill of the chase.
I'm very curious to know the basis for your assertion; on its face, your remarks about Rocco seem utterly baseless.
But THAT was Lewis Steinberg, NOT Duck . . .
But also, wait for the "1" . . . by that I mean, wait til you actually HEAR the kick (or snare) to play your bass note . . . that's the essence of "laying back" . . .
Goodness, if I did that the drummer would slow down even more... lol
Good point if you don't have a steady drummer. There is also something to be said about when everyone is on and the drummer plays slightly ahead or behind the beat. This could switch up within the same song for effect.
It's no secret that both Rocco and Duck have been instructed by the arrangers in their primary bands ( the TOP and the MG's) to play specific parts composed by the arranger. It's their respective skills with feel, sound, and technique that has set them in the limelight. And rightfully so.
Again, my two cents.
+Notes are just notes. Its how you play them that makes the difference that turns "Goat Piss into Gasoline"-Donald "Duck" Dunn
I dont get this thread at all. Ive heard just about everything. The general consensus is play late on the one and two and some even suggest the three. So if I am hearing this correctly, a good bass player is basically off beat 3/4 of the time. I guess I've wasted my time trying to nail my notes spot on. In my earlier days I used to be less confident and would wait to hear the beat before playing. I guess I need to get that back again, right?!
+Notes are just notes. Its how you play them that makes the difference that turns "Goat Piss into Gasoline"-Donald "Duck" Dunn
When I was being taught to play trumpet we were all told to accent the first beat, and then add a lesser accent to the third beat. That was the last I ever heard about it. Never again after that have I heard to do that until now.
I don't understand the logic behind this. I have always operated on the premise that the song dictates the needs for articulation, so just do what serves the song the best. A bit of a digression of the thread's point, I know, but a related question.
I don't understand the logic behind this. I have always operated on the premise that the song dictates the needs for articulation, so just do what serves the song the best. A bit of a digression of the thread's point, I know, but a related question.
Tony Levin talks about the placement of the note interms of where the actual beat is in his book Beyond The Bass Clef (a thoroughly good and often amusing read) which I heartily recommend. Although he goes into much more detail, the general upshot is Classical is played on top of the beat, Jazz ahead of the beat and Rock (see also blues, R&B, etc) behind the beat. Ultimately it's all about feel.
With regard to Rocco Prestia I'm pretty sure that the arrangements (and the whole TOP rhythm section feel) are a symbiosis of him and David Garibaldi, which Rocco has alluded to in many articles and videos.
With regard to Rocco Prestia I'm pretty sure that the arrangements (and the whole TOP rhythm section feel) are a symbiosis of him and David Garibaldi, which Rocco has alluded to in many articles and videos.
I think of a guy with his ass hanging off the back of a train, smacking down on the rail road ties as the train goes down the track.
Love this. I stood right here in my office after everybody left and did this. This is so fun. I sang a bunch of my favorite bass lines, the ones I have the hardest time grooving on. You could use this for writing bass lines! Can't believe I never heard of that before.
I always heard it that you make the one fat. Make it take up all the space it can. Get there a skotch early, leave late, play the rest of the notes in the bar a trifle late, the full weight of the note developing after the kick, like watching a mule pull a wagon, the way they stretch out and bunch up? That's a blues sound, though. For rock I sync up tight with the drummer, sit right on the note, which feels weird to me, like walking toward the driver on a moving bus, just odd, I play so much blues.
I think of a guy with his ass hanging off the back of a train, smacking down on the rail road ties as the train goes down the track.
i have been doing a lot experimenting with the space around the beat (there is actually quite a lot) during practice with my blues band. ultimately, i find that the more i think about it, the worse i do. the more i shut up and try to feel it, the better i do.
alas, now, with this image in my head, i don't know if i will be able to stop laughing and remember my lines....
