+1. CNC equipment has really narrowed the gap between mass-produced basses (and lots of other products) and the handmade ones. Heck, in many cases, CNC production is better than hand made. A CNC milled cylinder head is better than most handcut ones!
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Don't knock cheap basses until you try them.
- Thread starter Sendaii
- Start date
+1. CNC equipment has really narrowed the gap between mass-produced basses (and lots of other products) and the handmade ones. Heck, in many cases, CNC production is better than hand made. A CNC milled cylinder head is better than most handcut ones!
The quality of the Chinese made basses is, in some cases, outstanding.
I have been making a living playing music for 15 years. I have been blessed enough to own some really very nice stuff, including multiple Ken Smith and Roscoe basses, USA Laklands, and many high end and vintage Fenders.
In fact, at one point, I waited over a year and paid $5600 for a custom wide 5 Ken Smith bass.
I am an idiot.
I have three SX basses, all three have fretwork as good as any Fender I've played. Sorry, that's the truth. The build quality is roughly equal. I have never seen a sloppy neck joint on an SX. Fender?
You are paying for a name and a look with certain brands. Thats cool, but I play music to make money, not play with toys. You can't tell me that the ash or alder in the SX basses is inferior, I just don't buy it. Wood is wood.
The factory the SX products are made in rivals anything in the US in terms of modern production techniques, except they can do it a lot cheaper.
At a new church gig yesterday morning, several guys in the band commented on how good my 75 SX clone sounded and looked. One guy playing in the band owns a boutique guitar shop and sells handmade acoustic guitars (some of these range over $50K).
He was shocked after playing it that this was a hundred dollar bass. I believe his remark was..."this is why America can't compete".
I have been making a living playing music for 15 years. I have been blessed enough to own some really very nice stuff, including multiple Ken Smith and Roscoe basses, USA Laklands, and many high end and vintage Fenders.
In fact, at one point, I waited over a year and paid $5600 for a custom wide 5 Ken Smith bass.
I am an idiot.
I have three SX basses, all three have fretwork as good as any Fender I've played. Sorry, that's the truth. The build quality is roughly equal. I have never seen a sloppy neck joint on an SX. Fender?
You are paying for a name and a look with certain brands. Thats cool, but I play music to make money, not play with toys. You can't tell me that the ash or alder in the SX basses is inferior, I just don't buy it. Wood is wood.
The factory the SX products are made in rivals anything in the US in terms of modern production techniques, except they can do it a lot cheaper.
At a new church gig yesterday morning, several guys in the band commented on how good my 75 SX clone sounded and looked. One guy playing in the band owns a boutique guitar shop and sells handmade acoustic guitars (some of these range over $50K).
He was shocked after playing it that this was a hundred dollar bass. I believe his remark was..."this is why America can't compete".
i have a carvin bunny brunnel 5 stringer that i paid $325.00 for on ebay.it has top of the line Carvin 5 knob 9 volt pre-amp from previous owner.it has seen the stage all over Cal.Arizona, and Las Vegas.currently residing in Tenn. playing jazz in a trio and rocking biker festivals.the CARVIN BUNNY BRUNNEL BB75 IS $1400.00 NEW SO I DON'T KNOW IF IT REALLY QUALIFIES.IT HAS THE BEST B STRING YOU'LL EVER PLAY..
Play what you love, love what you play...
It doesn't matter what other people think. If you can rock the hell out of a Squire or SX and you remember that making music is the most important part, you are doing alright!
It doesn't matter what other people think. If you can rock the hell out of a Squire or SX and you remember that making music is the most important part, you are doing alright!
Both my basses are cheap. To be fair my 4 string isn't that good. I bought it to learn bass at home. My 5 string however, cost me only £130 and has an amazing sound. You can tell it has been made terribly, but it feels great in my hands, sounds amazing through my GK head [and surprisingly my Laney practise amp]. I couldn't be happier with it. It's definitely a bass I'll cherish forever.
This is one of those threads where (almost) nothing that anybody posts is going to be wrong - it's all so subjective!
For my $0.02, I would just say that I have gone from owning some hefty-priced, relatively high end gear (Wal, Status, Sadowsky, Alembic, Fender Custom Shop etc.) to having just two Tokais (Japanese Fender copies) and an Indonesian made StingRay (Sterling Ray34).
I find that even these cheaper instruments offer a level of tone and playability which matches my (somewhat limited) ability as a musician and is as close to the originals as to make no difference whatsoever. What's more, I wouldn't feel at all self-conscious about using these 'copy' basses in public, as there's nothing to 'live up to' (not so when you have a boutique built, funny shaped Alembic, covered in gold hardware hanging off your shoulder
).
For my $0.02, I would just say that I have gone from owning some hefty-priced, relatively high end gear (Wal, Status, Sadowsky, Alembic, Fender Custom Shop etc.) to having just two Tokais (Japanese Fender copies) and an Indonesian made StingRay (Sterling Ray34).
I find that even these cheaper instruments offer a level of tone and playability which matches my (somewhat limited) ability as a musician and is as close to the originals as to make no difference whatsoever. What's more, I wouldn't feel at all self-conscious about using these 'copy' basses in public, as there's nothing to 'live up to' (not so when you have a boutique built, funny shaped Alembic, covered in gold hardware hanging off your shoulder
).as stupid as this sounds, my old-headstock SX gets treated extra carefully, since it's no longer replaceable off the rack anymore.
Basses at every price point tend to have ones that are good, bad and mediocre. However, every now and then, you run into a "student prince", "best of breed" example of a particular brand/model of bass. I am a Fender head on the highest order and have a number of Ps and Js in my stable ... many of which are relatively inexpensive FrankenFenders. I was missing having a 50's single coil P in the stable, but didn't wanna go big time on one as I much prefer the later split pickup design Ps. I ran into a great deal on TalkBass on a virtually brand new Squire Vintage Vibe 50's Precision for only $200 so I rolled the dice. It needed some setting up when I got it but once tweaked, it has turned out to be a KILLER bass. I've had it for a few months now and the neck has been very stable and I love how it plays and feels ... as much as any of my other Fenders. Unlike most bottom wrung import Fenders, the hardware on it is pretty darn good. It's gotta high mass bridge that is as solid as a rock and the tuners turn very smoothly and it stays in tune. The pickup is a bit wanting so I think I'm going to put a Fralin or SD Antiquity in it. I also have a 60th anniversary Mexi-Fender J neck that came offa Active Jazz that is one of the best playing J necks I've ever run into ... not quite Geddy Lee petite, but fairly petite yet it is straight as an arrow and doesn't budge ... even with fairly high tension flats. Every now and then you get lucky. ;^)
I have a few (ok, ten) $1000-2000 basses and I enjoy owning them and playing them. Benevente, Gibson, old Fenders, G&L, etc. I love them all as they are quality instruments and sound (to my ears) great. All different, but all great.
I also think that in MOST cases a Sadowsky or Alleva Coppolo (just to use two "boutique-y" examples) will be better sounding and constructed than a MIA Fender and that MIA Fender in turn will GENERALLY be better constructed and sounding than a Squier Affinity or SX. A $2000-5000 AC or Sadowsky SHOULD sound better than a $1299 MIA Fender which in turn SHOULD sound better than a $109 SX or a $199 Affinity. Note: IME, a Sadowsky does not sound 2-3x better than a MIA Fender nor does the MIA Fender sound 5-10x better than a Squier or SX.
I would highly recommend ALL TBers posting in this thread to understand what all the Sadowsky, Lull, AC, Smith, Roscoe, Ritter, Fodera, etc. fuss is regardless if you love any of these or hate them all. Try a few in a store to understand the tonal and construction differences. It is easy to say that an SX or Squier is the best bass you have ever played if you have no experience with the boutiques or higher end MIA models.
Having said all of that, my main gigging bass for the last 6 months has been a Squier Vintage Modified Fretless. Why? It sounds AMAZING in the mix and the mix is where a lot of the differences between a Squier and a $5000 boutique is lost IMO/IME.
I owned 3 Sadowskys and 2 Roscoes at one time and sold them all as I found my MIA Fenders and Squier VM sounded amazing in a band context.
To each their own in any case....
I also think that in MOST cases a Sadowsky or Alleva Coppolo (just to use two "boutique-y" examples) will be better sounding and constructed than a MIA Fender and that MIA Fender in turn will GENERALLY be better constructed and sounding than a Squier Affinity or SX. A $2000-5000 AC or Sadowsky SHOULD sound better than a $1299 MIA Fender which in turn SHOULD sound better than a $109 SX or a $199 Affinity. Note: IME, a Sadowsky does not sound 2-3x better than a MIA Fender nor does the MIA Fender sound 5-10x better than a Squier or SX.
I would highly recommend ALL TBers posting in this thread to understand what all the Sadowsky, Lull, AC, Smith, Roscoe, Ritter, Fodera, etc. fuss is regardless if you love any of these or hate them all. Try a few in a store to understand the tonal and construction differences. It is easy to say that an SX or Squier is the best bass you have ever played if you have no experience with the boutiques or higher end MIA models.
Having said all of that, my main gigging bass for the last 6 months has been a Squier Vintage Modified Fretless. Why? It sounds AMAZING in the mix and the mix is where a lot of the differences between a Squier and a $5000 boutique is lost IMO/IME.
I owned 3 Sadowskys and 2 Roscoes at one time and sold them all as I found my MIA Fenders and Squier VM sounded amazing in a band context.
To each their own in any case....
The above is probably why I am into my cheap basses. I did the fret leveling and setup. I wired the upgrade pups, pots and switches. Call it "emotional equity" if you will. The instrument plays and sounds the way I want it to because I made it so. What better tool for expressing what is in my heart and soul?
have to agree that the Squier Affinity Jazz V sounds incredible for bass that can be had for well uner $250 new.
Head to head, it is a better buy than a MIM Jazz V.
Head to head, it is a better buy than a MIM Jazz V.
I played an EB-3 exclusively for years, and avoided the cheap import instruments for decades, Nowadays, the EB-3 doesn't leave the house. I'm really surprised at the quality of cheaper basses now.
There are three basses that I mainly gig with: a MIM P-bass, a GL Jazz, and an SX 5-string, all but the SX bought used (I have others that are of higher quality build/price, etc.). I tend to use the $300 P most of the time, with the J as a backup and sometimes whip the SX out for variety, particularly at rehearsals. I've come to realize that "tone" during a live performance is something few people other than bassists know or care about, while clarity and punch are paramount. The cheap ones deliver. (Recording is a different matter.) As for playability, I do my own setups and tweaks, so there's not that much difference between my most expensive and cheapest. The biggest difference between them is how much time, effort and adjustment each needs to get set.
There are three basses that I mainly gig with: a MIM P-bass, a GL Jazz, and an SX 5-string, all but the SX bought used (I have others that are of higher quality build/price, etc.). I tend to use the $300 P most of the time, with the J as a backup and sometimes whip the SX out for variety, particularly at rehearsals. I've come to realize that "tone" during a live performance is something few people other than bassists know or care about, while clarity and punch are paramount. The cheap ones deliver. (Recording is a different matter.) As for playability, I do my own setups and tweaks, so there's not that much difference between my most expensive and cheapest. The biggest difference between them is how much time, effort and adjustment each needs to get set.
There are a lot of reasons, really. Lack of funds, enjoying the unique sound and "personality" of a cheaper bass, not having to wear kid gloves while handling the instrument, for example. For me, it's a combination of all three. I'm a poor student, an expensive bass is the last thing on my list of priorities. I've made do with what I have available, and I found that I prefer it this way. And yes, I have tried more expensive models. They are very instruments and no mistake, but it isn't a good sign when I feel scared of touching the thing.
An example using one of my other favorite things... CYCLING!
We have person A. He is a dentist who has picked up cycling as a weekend health and all around fun past time. 'A' has the money, being a dentist, to drop a cool $3000 on a nice carbon fiber road bike, with a snazzy spandex suit that he can pedal around with on the weekend.
We have person B. 'B' is a serious cyclist. 'B' competes in cat. 4 road races during the summer and has also taken up cyclocross in the winter. Now, to kill time and stay in shape, 'B' has also been compeeting in the local Velodrome as well as a tri-athalon or two per year. 'B' is so serious about this that he has spent about $5000 on each bike for each race, which has been custom made for his height and weight. Cycling for 'B' is a full time job and it is how he makes a living. 'B' is puuuuure pro.
We have person C. 'C' is a bike messenger on the mean streets of New York city. 'C' is on his bike for hours upon hours 5 or 6 days a week. Now, NY is a rough place, and 'C' doesn't need a fancy carbon bike. 'C' has dumpstered a frame and built it up himself, stripping off superfluous gears and/or braking systems. If that fails, 'C' has no problem rocking a WalMart bike that gets him from point a to point b. All in all though, 'C' doesn't spend more than $100 or so on any of his bikes.
Finally, we have person D. 'D' is a pure commuter. However, unlike 'C', 'D' has a nice spot to lock his bike up at work and can afford to spend $2000 on a comfortable bike. However, 'D' is aware that he lives in a city and theft happens, so 'D' also has a neat little hybrid bike that only set him back about $500. Recently, 'D' has been enjoying his hybrid even more than his nice commuter bike.
Now, the same story can be applied to almost ANY sort of wide-ranging hobby. In our bass world, 'A' would be the same affluent dentist that has a super nice Sadowsky and a nice micro combo that he mainly uses in his bedroom... but will play out on occation. 'B' would be the super pro with a bajillion different basses for each job. 'C' would be the less-affluent but still giging bassist that has no problem rocking an SX or Squier as long as it gets the job done. Finally, 'D' would be the guy that gigs some times and jams with his friend, he may have a nice MIA Fender... but he's also hip to the pure playability of his SX.
So the moral is... everyone is different. Everyone's reason and methodology for playing bass is different. Some guy loves his $4000 Ritter just as much as the guy that loves his SX. You can't put a price on passion and you can't make judgements on other people's said passion. No-one has the right to bash someone's $4000 high-end boutique bass just as no one has the right to bash the other guy's $80 SX.
TL;DR - Play your own bass to the best of your own ability and play it so that YOU are happy.... **** what anyone else thinks.
We have person A. He is a dentist who has picked up cycling as a weekend health and all around fun past time. 'A' has the money, being a dentist, to drop a cool $3000 on a nice carbon fiber road bike, with a snazzy spandex suit that he can pedal around with on the weekend.
We have person B. 'B' is a serious cyclist. 'B' competes in cat. 4 road races during the summer and has also taken up cyclocross in the winter. Now, to kill time and stay in shape, 'B' has also been compeeting in the local Velodrome as well as a tri-athalon or two per year. 'B' is so serious about this that he has spent about $5000 on each bike for each race, which has been custom made for his height and weight. Cycling for 'B' is a full time job and it is how he makes a living. 'B' is puuuuure pro.
We have person C. 'C' is a bike messenger on the mean streets of New York city. 'C' is on his bike for hours upon hours 5 or 6 days a week. Now, NY is a rough place, and 'C' doesn't need a fancy carbon bike. 'C' has dumpstered a frame and built it up himself, stripping off superfluous gears and/or braking systems. If that fails, 'C' has no problem rocking a WalMart bike that gets him from point a to point b. All in all though, 'C' doesn't spend more than $100 or so on any of his bikes.
Finally, we have person D. 'D' is a pure commuter. However, unlike 'C', 'D' has a nice spot to lock his bike up at work and can afford to spend $2000 on a comfortable bike. However, 'D' is aware that he lives in a city and theft happens, so 'D' also has a neat little hybrid bike that only set him back about $500. Recently, 'D' has been enjoying his hybrid even more than his nice commuter bike.
Now, the same story can be applied to almost ANY sort of wide-ranging hobby. In our bass world, 'A' would be the same affluent dentist that has a super nice Sadowsky and a nice micro combo that he mainly uses in his bedroom... but will play out on occation. 'B' would be the super pro with a bajillion different basses for each job. 'C' would be the less-affluent but still giging bassist that has no problem rocking an SX or Squier as long as it gets the job done. Finally, 'D' would be the guy that gigs some times and jams with his friend, he may have a nice MIA Fender... but he's also hip to the pure playability of his SX.
So the moral is... everyone is different. Everyone's reason and methodology for playing bass is different. Some guy loves his $4000 Ritter just as much as the guy that loves his SX. You can't put a price on passion and you can't make judgements on other people's said passion. No-one has the right to bash someone's $4000 high-end boutique bass just as no one has the right to bash the other guy's $80 SX.
TL;DR - Play your own bass to the best of your own ability and play it so that YOU are happy.... **** what anyone else thinks.
Financial reality slapped upside my head a few years into my marriage, and I realized that I could no longer whip out a credit card or finance what is a hobby for me. Once I went back to cheaper gear, I found that it was far better put together than when I started playing in the mid 1970s.
Even better, I found out that many high end basses have low resale value or were being blown out as "new old stock." That is why I have such love for Peavey, and I appreciate Yamaha even more than I did when I profligate with my money.
Add in Ibanez and you have three of the most undervalued manufacturers out there. IMHO of course!
