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Don't skimp on the Lbs

#21
JimmyM said:
this is a good point, and i'm a tube amp fan as well.
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+1, I agree and should probably have clarified in my earlier post. I also love the sound of tube amps. That said, I'm in your average, everyday, bar band in Denver. The clubs we play are "just slightly" smaller than arenas, and there either isn't room on the stage for an SVT, or if there was, the SVT, at proper volume, would be way too loud for the room. Plus, I just don't want to haul one around. So, I got me a set up that gets 99% of the way home for about 1/4 to 1/3 the total weight. Plus, when the best soundman in town tells me he can't tell the difference, that's good enough for me...
 
#22
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#24
philipleonard said:
I started playing about 20yrs ago then stopped for a number of years. Two years ago I started playing again, but in the meantime all the gear had changed. The lightweights had appeared. There are a lot of lightweight threads and interest in the new fandangled lightweight gear. So much so that I ended up going down that road myself. I bought a Markbass CMD102P 18KG and 300W and what I believed to be a great sound, loud, clean, plenty of bottom...

That was untill I got my new rig - Trace Elliot V6 head and Eden D410XLT.
The new rig (Trace/Eden) is secondhand and cost about 1200Euros and weighs 60+ kilos.
The old rig (Markbass) was new and cost around 1200Euros and weighed 18 kilos.

The sound of the big and heavy stuff - Deeper, fatter, bassier, ballsier, crunchier, smoother, sweeter and the rest.
Trade in the kilos and you trade in sound quality. Some brands with boutique price tags can limit the damage but at the end of the day BIG(and heavy) = Beautiful.

Be a man and start lifting the weights!


Phil
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I don't completely agree. True, I do have heavy gear myself, but there ARE some really great sounding light cabs out there - my buddy NoStatic's Berg 2x10s sound dandy. If I had more money, I'd likely sell my Epifani's and buy Bergs like he has, but I don't so I won't. Besides, I'm a strong boy, I can hang... But to say that light gear is inferior is not accurate.
 
#25
Heavy is as heavy does.

After all, if one has a rig that sounds great, but it's heavy, one will rationalize the necessity of carrying the extra weight in any manner that justifies it.

Besides, everyone knows tone is all in the hands and they weigh, what...couple of pounds apiece?
 
#27
philipleonard said:
The sound of the big and heavy stuff - Deeper, fatter, bassier, ballsier, crunchier, smoother, sweeter and the rest. Trade in the kilos and you trade in sound quality. Some brands with boutique price tags can limit the damage but at the end of the day BIG(and heavy) = Beautiful.

Be a man and start lifting the weights!

Phil
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First - I don't agree with a single thing said above. So there.

Second - I'm 60 and have no desire to be silly enough to move heavy equipment around. My Genz-Benz gear does everything I could ask for in terms of volume, sound quality and portability.

You pick your amps, I'll pick mine. I don't insult yours, please don't insult mine.
 
#31
Pilgrim said:
First - I don't agree with a single thing said above. So there.

Second - I'm 60 and have no desire to be silly enough to move heavy equipment around. My Genz-Benz gear does everything I could ask for in terms of volume, sound quality and portability.

You pick your amps, I'll pick mine. I don't insult yours, please don't insult mine.
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I think his post was more about how thrilled he is with the way his current rig sounds as opposed to his old one.

Don't quite understand why weight has anything to do with it though. Perhaps to him, that is the only discernible difference between them.

philipleonard: Perhaps you could look again at your gear and tell us if you can manage to figure out if there is anything else different between your old rig and your current one. Maybe it is just the weight.
 
#32
I use around 500+ pounds of amps and cabs in my band. 3 old amps from the 70's that each weigh around 40 pounds and 4 large cabs that are 100 pounds or more. It's just drums and bass, so we always help each other move equipment, although I can lift each piece of gear by myself if needed.

All that being said, I've heard plenty of heavy cabs that were duds and plenty that sounded great. And it's the same with lightweight gear, some sucks, some is great. My problem with modern bass gear is the tone. A lot of these lightweight heads and cabs seem to have a focus on not colouring the sound. Seems too sterile to me. Just like people buy basses because of their tone, I do the same with amps and cabs. But, heavy or light doesn't really mean much. I think box size changes the sound a lot more.
 
#34
Sundogue said:
Don't quite understand why weight has anything to do with it though. Perhaps to him, that is the only discernible difference between them.
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Perhaps. But weight conveys no virtue. Most here are not old enough to remember it, but when "hi-fi" sound became possible and popular in the 50's, the guys "in the know" all swore that true high fidelity speakers had to be behemoths weighing enough to require a hand truck to move.

That quickly was debunked with advances in speaker and cabinet technology...just like the difference between older heavy cabs and newer lightweight ones.

The OP's larger, heavier cabs may indeed sound great. That does not justify saying that ONLY big, heavy cabs sound good...which is clearly the implication of the original post.
 
#35
Why should one choose anyway?! I like multiple options depending on the gig. A fridge of doom (and maybe some added grief) so I can shake walls & fill the room, or if there's a good P.A. & monitoring; I'll go with a digital amp & one 12" cab and give the drummer a ride home to boot!
 
#36
Metal Matt said:
I think box size changes the sound a lot more...

A lot of these lightweight heads and cabs seem to have a focus on not colouring the sound. Seems too sterile to me.
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Yeah, as in internal volume. I've taken a few old, heavy cabs and built new cabs for them out of 1/2" plywood and lightened them up quite a bit. Didn't change the tone one bit.

Certainly older, heavier speakers have their own inherent tone with the cabs designed around them, but even today it's cheaper for manufacturers to build boxes out of 3/4". They don't do it because it makes them sound any better...it's just cheaper to manufacture.

The focus these days on "not coloring the sound" has to do with allowing the player to color it, instead of limiting the player to a cab's singular inherent tone. It depends on the players ability and equipment that allows one to "color" it to one's liking.

I'm pretty sure the cab in the pic below (a 1515/66/1 fEARful when loaded) will kick the ass of ANY behemoth, heavy cab ever made (in both tone and volume)...just my opinion though...:smug:

DSC_1298.jpg
 
#37
Pilgrim said:
Perhaps. But weight conveys no virtue. Most here are not old enough to remember it, but when "hi-fi" sound became possible and popular in the 50's, the guys "in the know" all swore that true high fidelity speakers had to be behemoths weighing enough to require a hand truck to move.

That quickly was debunked with advances in speaker and cabinet technology...just like the difference between older heavy cabs and newer lightweight ones.

The OP's larger, heavier cabs may indeed sound great. That does not justify saying that ONLY big, heavy cabs sound good...which is clearly the implication of the original post.
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I'm completely aware of that. I was simply saying he was just loving his new rig, more than he was knocking anyone else's. It's just that he views weight as the only difference (I was being sarcastic there...but I thought that was obvious. :smug:)
 
#39
The weight is not a moot point as per the OP. He did upgrade by a large margin (new rig vs. used rig bought at same price) and the Trace head is killer. Of course tube heads are heavy. Of course a lot of people like how they sound! I'm one of them.

I'm young enough, and I suppose my band mates are as well, that buying a lightweight rig never crossed my mind. I love my lead sled tube heads, my 810, and my Mesa EV loaded cab. They sounds amazing and 90 lbs. (for me) is not a hard lift. Uncomfortable? Yeah, at the end of the night it's not like I won the lottery carrying my head or cab back to the van. But for the sound and the performance, feel, and volume that my gear puts out it's no question what I'm bringing to a show.

I'm sure the new lightweight gear sounds amazing too. I have to admit, I have not played nearly as much of it as tube and hybrid heads paired with traditional cabs. And when I'm an old fogey or my back goes out I will most likely sell my SVT for a Markbass. But the money is going to go towards a neo loaded 810 and a nice grindy sounding SS head :smug:
 

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