Double Bass Dragonetti's bow

[Andy Mopley]

Even if we cannot consider Dragonetti to have created a real school as such, he did introduce a new bow technique with which he could play an innovative and percussive staccato never heard before.

His stick with a very accentuated convex curvature and its grip necessitated the palm of the hand facing upwards and still bears his name.

Thus, why didn't this bow become more widely used? Was there something about it that made it work for some, but not the majority?

Regards to all

 

[David Potts]

Perhaps ask Tom and George Martin. They are the most knowledgeable people about basses that I can think of. They have a blog site.

 

[Andy Mopley]

Thanks David, but I was hoping that the collective wisdom here would be able to shed some light on this, and if they've had any experience using that particular bow? No particular reason for asking, other than a sense of curiosity.

 

[mittenwald]

Even if we cannot consider Dragonetti to have created a real school as such, he did introduce a new bow technique with which he could play an innovative and percussive staccato never heard before.

His stick with a very accentuated convex curvature and its grip necessitated the palm of the hand facing upwards and still bears his name.

Thus, why didn't this bow become more widely used? Was there something about it that made it work for some, but not the majority?

Regards to all

This is an interesting topic! I'm just speculating, but I believe the Dragonetti bow was quite short, it may not have been as optimal for long legato notes as it was for staccato. Also there was the invention of the Tourte bow, elements of which were adopted to create the modern German and French bows (concave rather than convex) and it was probably more optimized for the increasingly bel canto solo style of bass playing popularised by Bottessini, and also brought the Double Bass more in line with the Violin family of instruments, which increasingly influenced Double Bass playing and construction away from it's original Viol de Gamba / Violone roots (moving away from the use of gut frets, 6 strings, viol de gamba bow hold e.t.c.)

 

[kinnon64]

This is an interesting topic! I'm just speculating, but I believe the Dragonetti bow was quite short, it may not have been as optimal for long legato notes as it was for staccato. Also there was the invention of the Tourte bow, elements of which were adopted to create the modern German and French bows (concave rather than convex) and it was probably more optimized for the increasingly bel canto solo style of bass playing popularised by Bottessini, and also brought the Double Bass more in line with the Violin family of instruments, which increasingly influenced Double Bass playing and construction away from it's original Viol de Gamba / Violone roots (moving away from the use of gut frets, 6 strings, viol de gamba bow hold e.t.c.)

Fantastic points. I've played on Dragonetti bows a handful of times and they function very well at playing very loud and very fast, but sustain doesn't seem to be its strong suit

 

[David Potts]

I have only seen one convex bow that my first teacher owned and said belonged to Louis Blitz. He was a German bass teacher brought to Sydney by Verbruggen, the first Director of the Sydney Conservatorium when it started in 1927. The bow was beautifully crafted and the stick was rounded triangular, not round or hexagonal. It was not noticeably shorter and was sensitive, not clunky.

I have attached a shot of two old bows with more modern ones. We used to call the old bows "shark's head" and you can see that their sticks are slightly concave, much less than the modern sticks of today. In my student days we used to call the modern German bows Butler bows, with their deep frogs and shallow heads being a compromise between Dragonetti and Bottesini.

There is a pinerest image of Dragonetti with his bow that he seems to still be using when very old. The pictures of Bottesini mostly show him using a modern looking (French) bow from the shape of its head. Not all images are clear and several look as though the bow was straighter and clunkier like my second old one. Neither of my old ones are from Pernambuco and are quite light. Are they that old or just cheap, who knows?

 

[David Potts]

Incidently, FYI the rubber band around my stick just in front of the frog was an emergency response. My thumb pad was shiny and slipping around which stiffened my bow hold and distracted me. It was so successful that I kept it on with an even more relaxed bow hold. Being a small bump it does not interfere with my fingers. It is very cheap to replace too!!

 

[KUNGfuSHERIFF]

I know that type of bow as a shovelhead. I used to have one made of pernambuco and ebony that was quite nice, but heavy and clunky. Sounded like a pipe organ.

 

[mittenwald]

Giovanni Bottesini's Method book from the 1860s also mentions and compares the Dragonetti bow (here is the quote Google translated from the original French):

"Two types of bows are used for the Double Bass. The first says to the Dragonètti is very short and
curved in an arc.
Although at first glance, it seems favorable to the good attack of the strings, it has the serious inconvenience of suffocating the sounds, since the hair of the bow used as they are here stop too soon your strings and prevent vibration.
There is more: the very shape of this bow and its short dimension are not very suitable for producing sounds long term; therefore the related (legato?) sounds are almost impossible.
This bow, however, has an advantage: that of an 'excellent attack of the staccati. It is used a lot in Angleter (UK?) and in some cities of Italy.
The other bow, more generally in use, is longer and of any other shape; this is the one I use."

 

[David Potts]

The history of stretching horse hair into a ribbon with a bent stick goes back into antiquity in many countries, still in its primitive form, eg China and the Middle East. Even now the people playing early European music instruments can use something like Dragonetti's bow hold to alter the slackened hair tension as they play, making it possible to play three-string chords.

The only person I ever met who professionally used a shark's head convex bow with a deep frog was an Englishman who was then Principal Bass in the Rotterdam Philharmonic Orchestra. Was his name Roger ..........?? (senior's moment!!)

 

[CaseyVancouver]

Also, Dragonetti played a 3 string bass, with gut strings and would of tuned to a lower ‘A’. Modern a440 was standardized in the 1930’s.

A bit off topic: we played early music with a fun group the other night. The music was from about 1600. I found one player’s six string viola da gamba very interesting. It has gut frets and strings, and is played upright. The bow is held kind of German style, with fingers on the hair to adjust tension. There is no screw to adjust tension, it is fixed. The curve is opposite to modern bows.

The early music has a unique charm to it. My bass, tuned in 5ths with steel strings, has a strong deep presence so I had to be careful not to over power everybody. Sight reading was a bit tricky as some was written in 4/2. I can see why early music has a following.