Dremels for inlaying

[Christine]

Does anyone know anything about Dremels?

I think I want one for neck inlay and banding along with the appropriate attachment. The routers I have are far to big so it's either a Dremel of a smaller router . I've looked online but they don't really give related information. They would seem to be more controllable for work such as banding a carved top with multiple angle changes along the edges and the StewMac base offers good visibility for inlay work. Another option is engraving, something that is difficult with a router. I know I could build a jig for banding and use one of my own routers but still for inlaying fretboards they look like a reasonable option

What puts me off are reviews that say the 4000 series are just too big and noisy for delicate work, I imagine they mean delicate engraving, are those flexible extensions any help there? Also if they are that big, would they be too big for my requirements (bearing in mind until now I have done inlaying with a huge handheld router but they are not easy to control)

Basic questions if you have ever used these tools but I'm afraid I haven't even seen one

 

[arctur]

Hi,

yes, I do that frequently, though mostly on general woodworking things rather than guitars but I don't think that there is any difference for this question.
So yes, inlaying with a Dremel works great. I have the 3500 and that really is all one needs. I will say though that I would like LEDs and a constant speed motor sometimes but those are really more nice to have than necessary. Size and powerwise the smallest is absolutely enough. For inlaying you will need a proper router base for the dremel. As far as I can tell, there are only three that make sense: the two that Stewmac sell and the one from Veritas. I have the latter, simply because it is much easier and cheaper to get over here in Europe. And it works just as advertised, great for inlaying in a flat surface. Now when it comes to edges, you obviously need some way to keep the router bit a defined distance from the edge of the body. You can get little 1/8 rabbeting bits for the dremel I think but that is not super flexible. The other option is to have a guide attached to the router base. Both the Stewmac and the Veritas version allow you to do that, you should check out both systems. I think the Veritas version is nicer because it is more flexible but opinions may differ (Edit: as far as I can tell, the Veritas base has a guide for straight edges and convex curves but nothing for concave curves. You might have to make that attachment yourself but that shouldn't be too difficult). If you want to use any of the other Dremel-based jigs from Stewmac, you have to go with theirs anyway.

Now, to the downsides. The smallest quality spiral carbide bit that will fit that I am aware of here in Europe is 1.2mm. I have that, it is great, but it will surprise you how wide that cut is if you just want to rout a line (say, to fill with some sort of pigment/ca glue mix). There are spiral straight bits that are 0.8mm (from China or from Stewmac) but I think for fine engraving, those will still be too wide. It might be an option to experiment with putting little cnc v-shaped router bits in the dremel to get a finer line but I don't have any experience with that. So if you need really fine routed lines or engravings, definitely make sure that you find a suitable bit, the little straight bits are not what you want for that.
The other thing is kinda the opposite of your problem: because the whole setup is so light, the dremel in the base can tend to "jump" or skid a little on your workpiece as you move it along. So you want to make sure that your surface is nice and flat and it also helps to properly lubricate the base of the router base ("Silbergleit" is a good product that you can get over here in Europe for that purpose). This problem is one of the reasons why some people actually prefer using larger routers for inlaying because those will be a lot more stable. There is a video on youtube by the WoodWhisperer, I think called something like "Router-based inlay in a shaker table" or something along those lines, where he goes into that.

So yeah, definitely a Dremel works great for general inlay work on fingerboards, bandings or bindings might depend a bit on the base or the router bit but engraving might be difficult. I say get one. I could upload pictures of the 3500 with the Veritas base if that helps you somehow.

Oh and one last thing: Don't be fooled into thinking you need a dust blower or something. Just wrap a little strap of tape around the collet of the bit into a little fan. Works like a charm!

Hope this helped. Cheers, Niklas

 

[Christine]

Hi,

yes, I do that frequently, though mostly on general woodworking things rather than guitars but I don't think that there is any difference for this question.
So yes, inlaying with a Dremel works great. I have the 3500 and that really is all one needs. I will say though that I would like LEDs and a constant speed motor sometimes but those are really more nice to have than necessary. Size and powerwise the smallest is absolutely enough. For inlaying you will need a proper router base for the dremel. As far as I can tell, there are only three that make sense: the two that Stewmac sell and the one from Veritas. I have the latter, simply because it is much easier and cheaper to get over here in Europe. And it works just as advertised, great for inlaying in a flat surface. Now when it comes to edges, you obviously need some way to keep the router bit a defined distance from the edge of the body. You can get little 1/8 rabbeting bits for the dremel I think but that is not super flexible. The other option is to have a guide attached to the router base. Both the Stewmac and the Veritas version allow you to do that, you should check out both systems. I think the Veritas version is nicer because it is more flexible but opinions may differ (Edit: as far as I can tell, the Veritas base has a guide for straight edges and convex curves but nothing for concave curves. You might have to make that attachment yourself but that shouldn't be too difficult). If you want to use any of the other Dremel-based jigs from Stewmac, you have to go with theirs anyway.

Now, to the downsides. The smallest quality spiral carbide bit that will fit that I am aware of here in Europe is 1.2mm. I have that, it is great, but it will surprise you how wide that cut is if you just want to rout a line (say, to fill with some sort of pigment/ca glue mix). There are spiral straight bits that are 0.8mm (from China or from Stewmac) but I think for fine engraving, those will still be too wide. It might be an option to experiment with putting little cnc v-shaped router bits in the dremel to get a finer line but I don't have any experience with that. So if you need really fine routed lines or engravings, definitely make sure that you find a suitable bit, the little straight bits are not what you want for that.
The other thing is kinda the opposite of your problem: because the whole setup is so light, the dremel in the base can tend to "jump" or skid a little on your workpiece as you move it along. So you want to make sure that your surface is nice and flat and it also helps to properly lubricate the base of the router base ("Silbergleit" is a good product that you can get over here in Europe for that purpose). This problem is one of the reasons why some people actually prefer using larger routers for inlaying because those will be a lot more stable. There is a video on youtube by the WoodWhisperer, I think called something like "Router-based inlay in a shaker table" or something along those lines, where he goes into that.

So yeah, definitely a Dremel works great for general inlay work on fingerboards, bandings or bindings might depend a bit on the base or the router bit but engraving might be difficult. I say get one. I could upload pictures of the 3500 with the Veritas base if that helps you somehow.

Oh and one last thing: Don't be fooled into thinking you need a dust blower or something. Just wrap a little strap of tape around the collet of the bit into a little fan. Works like a charm!

Hope this helped. Cheers, Niklas

That is a big help, thank you Niklas

I agree 1.2mm is a big bit but useful for removing large areas although up until now the smallest bit I have used was a 2mm in my big routers (an Elu 177E if you remember them) then finished off with hand tools. They are very big and are a bit unstable on a fretboard but great for furniture. I must admit the thought of using a cutter less than 1mm sounds a little intimidating, I can imagine them becoming very short, very soon but like with most things, control is the key. I haven't really looked into bit availability, I wasn't 100% sure if the Dremel was all it was made out to be but I'll start looking now.

I had no idea about the veritas base, I generally like Veritas tools, always well made and a pleasure to own, I shall look for one now. StewMac have the base on offer at the moment too.

I have seen a picture of the bit of tape being used as a dust blower, I did wonder but it sounds like it works so I will do that.

Many thanks again, you have been a huge help

 

[arctur]

Sure, no problem.
I am not sure what the overall cost would be to have the Stewmac base shipped over here with shipping charges and tax and stuff. The Veritas base you could get from Germany from either Dictum or fine-tools, they'll ship to the island no problem (and tax-free, for the time being...). The spiral carbide bits I have are also from Dictum and I have the smallest and the biggest size which works out at 1.2 and 2.2mm. I use the big one to hog out most of the material and then the small one to finish off the cavity as far as it will go. If there are sharp angles I just leave those and cut them using a box cutter with a fresh blade or a very fine chisel (fine-tools sell one from MHG that is just 2mm wide and costs only 8,50€. Something to look into if you should order something from them. I love it.)
I would suggest not using the small 1.2mm bit to remove the bulk, simply because it is quite fragile. The rule of thumb with these is not to remove more than the width of the bit per pass, meaning that the 2.2mm bit will remove about twice as much material per pass. I think Dan Erlewine has a video on that on Stewmac's youtube channel ("Stop breaking router bits" or something).
As for the 0.8mm bits: I have some on order right now. They are from a Hong Kong-based seller on amazon and run a 10€ for five bits. Not sure about the quality and durability but I figure at that price I can't really go wrong. I can report back on those when they arrive in a few weeks. Stewmac also sells a 1/32 bit (i.e. 0.8mm) but that one is 14€ for just one and that is already the sale price...
Please ask if you need to know anything else!

Edit: Oh and also, the "proper" comparison between Stewmac and Veritas would be with the Stewmac plunge routing base which is significantly more expensive. With the normal Stewmac base you would have to preset your depth and sort of plunge into the wood with the bit already sticking out. I much prefer a real plunging action, especially with the very fine bits. Also, that base does not allow you to copy the thickness of a substrate. If you wanna inlay, say, a piece of pearl, you could easily copy the thickness on the Veritas base, then add a half-turn on that little adjusting knob to make sure the pearl is little proud of the surface and you're good to go. You can check the manual on Veritas' website to see that in action.

 

[papasteack]

For europe from 0,4 mm spiral AND thoothed (noticeably reduce tear) : Invalid Link Removed
And from 0,3 mm without tooth Invalid Link Removed

 

[arctur]

For europe from 0,4 mm spiral AND thoothed (noticeably reduce tear) : Invalid Link Removed
And from 0,3 mm without tooth Invalid Link Removed

Hey thanks, I was not aware of those! Will order for sure.

 

[Christine]

Sure, no problem.
I am not sure what the overall cost would be to have the Stewmac base shipped over here with shipping charges and tax and stuff. The Veritas base you could get from Germany from either Dictum or fine-tools, they'll ship to the island no problem (and tax-free, for the time being...). The spiral carbide bits I have are also from Dictum and I have the smallest and the biggest size which works out at 1.2 and 2.2mm. I use the big one to hog out most of the material and then the small one to finish off the cavity as far as it will go. If there are sharp angles I just leave those and cut them using a box cutter with a fresh blade or a very fine chisel (fine-tools sell one from MHG that is just 2mm wide and costs only 8,50€. Something to look into if you should order something from them. I love it.)
I would suggest not using the small 1.2mm bit to remove the bulk, simply because it is quite fragile. The rule of thumb with these is not to remove more than the width of the bit per pass, meaning that the 2.2mm bit will remove about twice as much material per pass. I think Dan Erlewine has a video on that on Stewmac's youtube channel ("Stop breaking router bits" or something).
As for the 0.8mm bits: I have some on order right now. They are from a Hong Kong-based seller on amazon and run a 10€ for five bits. Not sure about the quality and durability but I figure at that price I can't really go wrong. I can report back on those when they arrive in a few weeks. Stewmac also sells a 1/32 bit (i.e. 0.8mm) but that one is 14€ for just one and that is already the sale price...
Please ask if you need to know anything else!

Edit: Oh and also, the "proper" comparison between Stewmac and Veritas would be with the Stewmac plunge routing base which is significantly more expensive. With the normal Stewmac base you would have to preset your depth and sort of plunge into the wood with the bit already sticking out. I much prefer a real plunging action, especially with the very fine bits. Also, that base does not allow you to copy the thickness of a substrate. If you wanna inlay, say, a piece of pearl, you could easily copy the thickness on the Veritas base, then add a half-turn on that little adjusting knob to make sure the pearl is little proud of the surface and you're good to go. You can check the manual on Veritas' website to see that in action.

Good point about the plunge, I just looked at the Stewmac video and it's a screw down to alter the depth, that wont give good control on very small cuts like letter inlaying the headstock

I'll check out that video too, sounds like a must watch.

 

[Christine]

For europe from 0,4 mm spiral AND thoothed (noticeably reduce tear) : Invalid Link Removed
And from 0,3 mm without tooth Invalid Link Removed

I'm sorry for not thanking you for your link, I just looked in and the reply was still there unsent, I must have clicked the wrong button. Anyway, thank you, that is a brilliant link

 

[Christine]

Sure, no problem.
I am not sure what the overall cost would be to have the Stewmac base shipped over here with shipping charges and tax and stuff. The Veritas base you could get from Germany from either Dictum or fine-tools, they'll ship to the island no problem (and tax-free, for the time being...). The spiral carbide bits I have are also from Dictum and I have the smallest and the biggest size which works out at 1.2 and 2.2mm. I use the big one to hog out most of the material and then the small one to finish off the cavity as far as it will go. If there are sharp angles I just leave those and cut them using a box cutter with a fresh blade or a very fine chisel (fine-tools sell one from MHG that is just 2mm wide and costs only 8,50€. Something to look into if you should order something from them. I love it.)
I would suggest not using the small 1.2mm bit to remove the bulk, simply because it is quite fragile. The rule of thumb with these is not to remove more than the width of the bit per pass, meaning that the 2.2mm bit will remove about twice as much material per pass. I think Dan Erlewine has a video on that on Stewmac's youtube channel ("Stop breaking router bits" or something).
As for the 0.8mm bits: I have some on order right now. They are from a Hong Kong-based seller on amazon and run a 10€ for five bits. Not sure about the quality and durability but I figure at that price I can't really go wrong. I can report back on those when they arrive in a few weeks. Stewmac also sells a 1/32 bit (i.e. 0.8mm) but that one is 14€ for just one and that is already the sale price...
Please ask if you need to know anything else!

Edit: Oh and also, the "proper" comparison between Stewmac and Veritas would be with the Stewmac plunge routing base which is significantly more expensive. With the normal Stewmac base you would have to preset your depth and sort of plunge into the wood with the bit already sticking out. I much prefer a real plunging action, especially with the very fine bits. Also, that base does not allow you to copy the thickness of a substrate. If you wanna inlay, say, a piece of pearl, you could easily copy the thickness on the Veritas base, then add a half-turn on that little adjusting knob to make sure the pearl is little proud of the surface and you're good to go. You can check the manual on Veritas' website to see that in action.

I ordered the Veritas base, it arrived today, I'm very impressed with it, such a smooth operation and very well built. I'm looking forward to using it on my build now. Thank you again for that recommendation

 

[arctur]

I ordered the Veritas base, it arrived today, I'm very impressed with it, such a smooth operation and very well built. I'm looking forward to using it on my build now. Thank you again for that recommendation

No problem I am sure you'll put it to good use, your build thread looks great! How are you finding your Record Power stuff? On paper they seem like a good option in terms of good budget machines available in Europe but I have seen very little user experiences.

 

[Christine]

No problem I am sure you'll put it to good use, your build thread looks great! How are you finding your Record Power stuff? On paper they seem like a good option in terms of good budget machines available in Europe but I have seen very little user experiences.

They're OK, the bandsaw could use better guides but with care they do work so just need a little time to set up. The planer is very good but I had to modify the top guard quite a lot to be able to change between planer and thicknesser without using a spanner which was a complete nightmare, I don't know what idiot designed that bit. Now it's modified I can't really fault it; I changed the bolts that hold it in place and put a stainless Steel hand wheel to spin off to allow removal of the guard. The two sanders just work well. On balance they were the right choice for me, I don't regret buying them