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Drop A on a 34" scale 5 string?

#21
Just to throw in my $.02, Fieldy from Korn tunes his 5er a whole step down to A standard (ADGCF) not just “drop A”. He uses DR NGB 45 strings (low B of .125). They might be a little “floppy”, but they obviously don’t adversely affect his sound.

As primarily a guitar player, I wouldn’t worry too much about bass string tension. If anything, it will make the bass easier to fret and wear your hand out less quickly if you’re not especially used to fretting a 34” B string compared to tiny little guitar strings.
 
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#23
jeff foster said:
very informative. thank you!! In your opinion do you think it makes more sense to try to fit the .150 string or go with a longer scale bass? If fitting it isn't a major concern I have no problem taking it to a luthier to get it all setup. i guess i'm just wondering what the "standard" solution to this problem would be.
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The solution is as much ergonomic as anything - if you like a 34 inch scale, then refit what you have. If not, there are longer scale options - 35's, naturally, but there are also multi scales like Dingwalls - the lowest string is a 37 inch scale. Kalium makes a custom Quake bass, where the lowest string is 40 inches long. The Dingwall and Quake are fanned fret instruments, which may or my not be easy for you to adapt to, and the strings you'll need for the lower/longer than standard strings may be limited in choices - with 34 or 35 inch scale, you'll have more options.
 
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#24
Jim Carr said:
I wonder, why is low A so musically important? What is the musical context? It's OK. I don't think it is wrong or impractical. It's music.
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Stevorebob said:
This.
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From the OP's posts, my guess is that this bass will be doing a fair amount of doubling electric guitar parts that make pervasive use of a low A far beyond merely dropping low notes here or there, possibly in a heavy rock/metal context that features lots of muting and/or pedaling on the low A. There is a significant difference in the overall tone of those styles when an equally detuned bass doubles those parts versus situations where the bassist sticks to a standard tuning (for example, by handling any "low A" mutes by using the standard A string on a EADG-tuned bass).

That is not to say that either approach is invalid, as there are plenty of bassists playing these types of music who do not detune a get great results, but there absolutely is a noticeable difference in the overall sound -- and the vast majority of bands tend to go the detuned-bass route.
 
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#25
One other opinion on the musicality of a low A. I had a 5 string bass about 35 years ago, and....ended up moving it on. Back then, I was playing through typical bass amps, which didn't reproduce the low B at all - even the low E on standard tuned bass isn't really well handled by standard bass rigs (then or now). Sure, with a high pass filter, you can get the rig to tolerate that note, but it won't (at any decent volume) actually produce the fundamental of the note - we have "discussions" on Talkbass fairly regularly as to whether or not the fundamental is important - I'm in the camp that it is (explanation to follow). Bass amps aren't actually designed to produce full volume really low frequencies - they're designed to be light, loud and portable, and in that trade off, low end extension gets cut. If you want loud and low, you need to give up portable and light.

Recently, I've built my self a 5'er, and am working on one more (I build all my own basses). Why did I change my tune at this point? Because the majority of gigs I play, I don't use an amp. I hear myself through in ears, which can reproduce the low B on a 5 string, and the places I play have PA's that do just fine reproducing the fundamentals of a B. If you have the opportunity to play through such a rig, you will understand why I think fundamentals are important - when done well, they make a big difference.

So, my point is....tuning a 5 string down even further, don't expect to get massive low end out of an amp - if the bands and places you're playing in are going to cover the audience with sound from your amps, the results may not be as impressive as you hope. If, however, there's a good sized PA involved, things can be quite different. That doesn't mean you won't be able to make music with the bass you're pondering, just realize there are limitations when amps and cabinets get involved.
 
#26
MCS4 said:
From the OP's posts, my guess is that this bass will be doing a fair amount of doubling electric guitar parts that make pervasive use of a low A far beyond merely dropping low notes here or there, possibly in a heavy rock/metal context that features lots of muting and/or pedaling on the low A. There is a significant difference in the overall tone of those styles when an equally detuned bass doubles those parts versus situations where the bassist sticks to a standard tuning (for example, by handling any "low A" mutes by using the standard A string on a EADG-tuned bass).

That is not to say that either approach is invalid, as there are plenty of bassists playing these types of music who do not detune a get great results, but there absolutely is a noticeable difference in the overall sound -- and the vast majority of bands tend to go the detuned-bass route.
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absolutely. i primarily play metal and while i love progressive music and try to write/play interesting things it mostly amounts to boring bass parts because i'm not good at writing interesting bass. it's something i'd really love to improve on in my writing. for now though the bass mostly fits in my music and mixes as primarily being there to maintain the low end.
 
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#27
Just to add my two cents to what has already been said, remember that it also depends on how you play. If you know how to control your attacks, a drop A on a 34" scale is quite possible. I think the first thing to do before making a decision is to know how you play.

Then, the way this low A will sound in a mix will depend on your EQ settings, compression and things like that. Here is an example of a B string tuned to A in a relatively dense mix:

 
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#28
I do drop A or A standard on my 34" scale 5er fretless. It works fine, I found stiffer, medium gauge SS strings to feel and work better, especially with faster stuff. .050-.135, generally. I also play with low action, a ramp and a fairly light but percussive attack.

I had to play around with a bunch of strings before I found some I liked. I eventually settled on XL pro steels as the low A string stiffness was nice on those. Good luck with the search for strings that work and match your playing style! You can also just pick up some individual low A strings, I tried a few different sizes and mfgs and then ordered a bunch of packs.
 
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#33
I have a D-Tuner on my 5 string so dropped A shows up fairly often for me. I use a .125 for my B. Of course dropping to A it’s a bit floppy but over the years I’ve learned to play softer and let the amp do more of the work. It’s tough when playing metal I know. Double bass is rollin, China is being smashed, guitars are chuggin deep... adrenaline take over pretty easily. I’d suggest trying a .135 first and see how that works out.
 
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#34
I did this exact thing today. 34» scale Spector Coda 5 with my custom Newtone string set. (A 142 exposed core low B). Worked wonderfully. If I was keeping the bass tuned that way permanently, I’d up the gauge a bit more. I highly reccomend Newtone strings, but I’m sure a set of D’Addario ProSteels with the 145 B would work fine as well. Maybe the DR DDTs as well. I wouldn’t bother with anything lighter than a 140 if you don’t want to baby your attack on that one string.
 
#36
jeff foster said:
absolutely. i primarily play metal and while i love progressive music and try to write/play interesting things it mostly amounts to boring bass parts because i'm not good at writing interesting bass. it's something i'd really love to improve on in my writing. for now though the bass mostly fits in my music and mixes as primarily being there to maintain the low end.
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This is how I started off playing bass too, and I've tuned low pretty much since I began playing music -- not consciously at first, I just preferred the sound of it and found it easier to sing along with as my voice changed. It's great to find all the info you can find on here but don't overthink it and talk yourself out of trying something you're interested in. I've been anywhere from A to C# on the low strings of a few 34" basses and never had a problem. As a player, it makes sense for your bass to be an octave down relative to your guitar. I've tried a few different pitch-shifting solutions over the years but never found a sound I liked anywhere near as much as a real bass in the right tuning. Who do you listen to? There are some pretty fantastic creative bassists in metal right now, tons of inspiration floating around if you want to spice things up.
 
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#38
rutrho said:
In the context of metal, the low A isn't about making loud low noises, it's often about the deeper and lower fundamental of the string and how it sounds, not about shaking everyone to death at 28hz or whatever it is
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Low A or B doesn't have to shake everyone to death - done right, it provides a nice, authoritative "weight" to the mix. It works in any genre - metal would definitely benefit from it. I don't know where this idea that really low bass is bad ever got started - done right, it's a glorious thing.
 
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#39
Can't speak for tuning down to A, but since getting my 34" scale 5 string which I used either a .135 or a .130.. I personally would advise not to judge the sound of the low string straight out of the package. The thickness when a string that thick is new and bright MAY generate some crazy overtones. As time has passed and I've played the bass more, the string has lost some of it's zing, and to my ears, it's a huge improvement over the first week or three of it being on the bass. Notes from it seem much tighter and defined, none of the overtones I was experiencing when they were brand new. I was a little disappointed, being my first 5'er when I first put them on and heard the B string, where as just this morning I was like "wow that sounds good" I found in the early stages of the strings, boosting lows a bit helped mask the "loose" sounding B string. Where at this point it sounds pretty tight with a flat EQ.

With that I'll let you guys get back to the downtuning talk.
 
#40
jeff foster said:
I recently picked up a Yamaha TRBX505. I want to tune it to drop A (AEADGBE), but after doing some research I'm not sure if I can detune and maintain a comfortable amount of tension on the low B string. I was unaware until recently that it's more common to use a longer scale like 35" with a thicker string gauge like .140+. The bass came strung with a .130. I really like this bass and i'd like to continue to use it. I know saying "comfortable" is subjective, but it's definitely very loose and wobbly sounding with a .130. I'm not sure how thick a string it will support till it needs to be modified and i think i'd rather save myself the trouble and pick up a longer scale instead.

I'm clearly not the most knowledgeable on the subject and i'm just looking for some information and advice on what to do. Any help is greatly appreciated.
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Just try it and see for yourself... let us know how it works. I predict you will be fine with the .130.

I tuned my 4 string Jazz bass' E string down to C... two whole steps! Using TI Jazz flats, strings that are low tension to begin with. It was for only one tune and it worked great. Most would cringe at the thought but it got the job done easily.
 

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