Drummer nightmares

[Micha84]

Hey everybody,

let's get this out first: Drummers, like all musicians, are really cool people. I like them a lot, I wish I was one of them. Me as a bassist, I am nowhere near perfect and if people opened threads called "bass player nightmares" about me, I really couldn't blame them.

Now, with that said...

I agreed to help out a friend's band for a few gigs. These are all original songs and they are quite good, songs and musicians alike. The drummer is not a bad drummer in the sense that he can't play, technically he is actually pretty good, but he is very inconsistent - he doesn't play the same groove twice. And with "twice" I mean, two bars in a row. The kick drum is all over the place. One bar he suddenly decides he wants to play some crazy figures on the hihat, next bar he doesn't play it at all. He randomly goes into double or half time. Then maybe he doesn't hit the snare for a bar or two.
The songs we are talking about are basic rock songs mostly where I can get away with straight 8th notes on the root, and I can basically ignore the drummer. But then there are breaks, quieter parts, some verses that would really benefit from a cool groove...
Of course I asked about it. He once actually admitted that he couldn't remember the groove for one song, but in general his response was: I feel the moment and I react to it. He said he wanted to hear what I was doing first so he could adapt (I tried, he didn't follow me one bit). I told him that I was the sub and I needed a reliable foundation. I also told him plain and simple that I thought the songs wouldn't groove if we couldn't find some consistent rhythms to lock into. He said he always did it this way and it was always fine.
The other band members didn't say anything about it. It is not my band, so I didn't press the issue further, I'll be playing some shows and then I'm out. But this was the first time for me that not only didn't I gel or lock in with a drummer, but that there wasn't any rhythmical foundation at all to offer any orientation. That feels really weird, especially in parts where one would usually expect a solid groove.

So, let's hear your stories! What were your drummer nightmares?

 

[mcnach]

I played a couple of reggae gigs recently with a drummer who clearly felt Keith Moon was the right style to use, if Keith played with a very erratic tempo and kept inserting long busy fills that never ended up on the beat.

Embarrasing.

 

[lomo]

One of my favourite musical quotes is from Chet Baker: "It takes a really good drummer to be better than no drummer."

 

[PDW30]

Hey everybody,

let's get this out first: Drummers, like all musicians, are really cool people. I like them a lot, I wish I was one of them. Me as a bassist, I am nowhere near perfect and if people opened threads called "bass player nightmares" about me, I really couldn't blame them.

Now, with that said...

I agreed to help out a friend's band for a few gigs. These are all original songs and they are quite good, songs and musicians alike. The drummer is not a bad drummer in the sense that he can't play, technically he is actually pretty good, but he is very inconsistent - he doesn't play the same groove twice. And with "twice" I mean, two bars in a row. The kick drum is all over the place. One bar he suddenly decides he wants to play some crazy figures on the hihat, next bar he doesn't play it at all. He randomly goes into double or half time. Then maybe he doesn't hit the snare for a bar or two.
The songs we are talking about are basic rock songs mostly where I can get away with straight 8th notes on the root, and I can basically ignore the drummer. But then there are breaks, quieter parts, some verses that would really benefit from a cool groove...
Of course I asked about it. He once actually admitted that he couldn't remember the groove for one song, but in general his response was: I feel the moment and I react to it. He said he wanted to hear what I was doing first so he could adapt (I tried, he didn't follow me one bit). I told him that I was the sub and I needed a reliable foundation. I also told him plain and simple that I thought the songs wouldn't groove if we couldn't find some consistent rhythms to lock into. He said he always did it this way and it was always fine.
The other band members didn't say anything about it. It is not my band, so I didn't press the issue further, I'll be playing some shows and then I'm out. But this was the first time for me that not only didn't I gel or lock in with a drummer, but that there wasn't any rhythmical foundation at all to offer any orientation. That feels really weird, especially in parts where one would usually expect a solid groove.

So, let's hear your stories! What were your drummer nightmares?

Question from a non-gigging bedroom bassist: did you get any impression of what the rest of the band thought of the drummer?

 

[Oddly]

Is this the first time the drummer has had a bass player in the band?
Did nobody else see the problem?

 

[waynobass]

... a drummer who clearly felt Keith Moon was the right style to use, if Keith played with a very erratic tempo and kept inserting long busy fills that never ended up on the beat.

This describes 95% of all drummers.

 

[GretschWretch]

My two worst experiences with drummers are (1) back in the nineties the drummer in the band I was with at the time got a whole new kit, including six floating tom-toms. He flogged these toms continuously, on every song, just played across them all from one side to the other. Not only was this overkill but he lost tempo and sped everything up. He couldn't hear it and would not change when we told him about it. "Got to show off my new kit, doncherknow."

(2) was back in the early 1970s, when the rehearsal space for the band I was in got broken into. Drummer and rhythm guitarist/lead singer had everything taken. Lead player and I lost nothing because we always took our instruments home after rehearsal and, not being able to afford "store-bought amps," we both had amps made by fathers skilled in electronics. And they looked it. The guitar player concluded that our amps were spared because the thieves decided they were too cheap-looking to pawn and too distinctive-looking to keep; truly burglar proof (just like my 1971 Precision).

Anyway, the rehearsal space was insured so we could get reimbursement for what was stolen. Which was fine, until it came time to assess value for the stolen items and decide upon replacement. That too went off without a hitch, until we got to the PA head, at which point the lead player and drummer got into a kerfuffle. Lead player wanted a 100-watt mono PA, drummer wanted a 50-watt stereo PA. If I recall correctly, the 100-watt mono would ave been louder.

To cut to the chase:

DRUMMER: We need to get the 50-watt unit because stereo watts are *BETTER* than mono watts. Terry, you don't know what you're talking about!

GUITARIST: Bill, you cannot make a statement like "stereo watts are better than mono watts" and then tell ME that I don't know what I'M talking about!

The people trying to sort out the paperwork for the claim called me, as the bass player and the most sensible person in the band, into the room to help them assess replacement value for the stolen items.

 

[bwildt]

Drummers don't need to be a simple click machine, but some get way too busy. But it's not just drummers. We've all seen band members on any instrument who just can't stop constantly showing off their chops or give the song a little space. Drums, guitar, bass,keys, horns, harmonica players! Play for the song, everyone.

 

[JamesGrant]

qq - paid or favour for friends?
Do they have any recorded material?
Sounds like it’s either garbage or they have a unique vibe going on.

 

[Neck Diver]

My stories would be back in the day when I was a drummer. They involve a bass player that had to be repeatedly asked to turn down. Because he played a tube head through two 2X15 cabs he must have thought he had a right to be loudest member in the band. Also he over played!
In reality he was quite capable of being a very good bass player, just had a hard time making himself do it.
Gotta admit I could have been a better drummer if I’d practiced more and laid back a bit. So there’s some honesty.
Maturity frequently takes care of these problems, did with me.

 

[silky smoove]

I have dealt with this type of drummer before. They will always claim that it's how they've always done it, and it's all about expressing the groove they feel in the moment, and blah blah blah... It's all just excuses for not wanting to put them time in to crafting or learning a part and having the discipline to execute it consistently. People frequently discount just how challenging it is to play with discipline and restraint. Drummers are no better or worse at this than anyone else in a band, but as they are one of the more foundational elements to many styles of music, when they lack discipline, it shows up disproportionately to the same thing happening with other members of the band.

 

[Dynacord]

I played a couple of reggae gigs recently with a drummer who clearly felt Keith Moon was the right style to use, if Keith played with a very erratic tempo and kept inserting long busy fills that never ended up on the beat.

Embarrasing.

Reminded of being in the audience at a house party in Santa Cruz (California) in the 90s and there was a reggae band. Really good players and very baked. Drummer however was clearly on stimulants stronger than coffee and every tune started out in the dub zone and ended ska...

 

[Neck Diver]

If that drummer is doing this at gigs and the band won’t do it then you should fire him! Yes, I know it’s not your band but someone needs to have the courage.

 

[pabloramone]

Is he playing in time ? Right on the beat ?

 

[klyph]

Some drummers can dance, but most can’t. Guess which kind you want to play with?

 

[BassHole1]

Long time drummer here. Been playing bass a lot for a few years. As a drummer, I don't have issues with keeping time yet changing things up a little. As a bassist, I find it annoying since all I want to do is lay down a groove and lock into the drummer. In the band I'm in, my drummer is very good and a veteran of many bands. He knows how to be in the pocket, and is very creative doing a lot of little embellishments. But we can lock in and be solid for the band. In the weekly jam I attend, some drummers are great. Others are just painful to play with because they are all over the place, don't know dynamics, have to drum solo every part of a song or just overplay or lack feel. It's the same when listening to the bass - you can tell the guitarist who's playing bass as he's trying to do solos with every bass line. I hate the virtuoso musicians who have to do crazy notes/chords or play all sorts of oddball beats/notes just because they can, and it doesn't fit the song!

I hate to say it, but really a good bassist and a good drummer are ones you don't even notice. They are just there, in sync, and form the basis of the song to let the singer/guitar/keys be the lead.

 

[waveman]

Ha, just do stuff kinda gig. I remember playing guitar with some buddies of mine in the 90's, and these two cats (drummer and bassist) lived together and often substanized,. Anyway, I would show up and they would say lets start playing this or that song. And as soon as I would get an idea of what they were doing, they would just start down another path. They had their own "language" and at some points I would just go berserk and random running chords up and down the fretboard or some random sololing until they found a groove. I would lock in when I could.... They called it a jam band and could not understand the fundamentals of any sort of structure. I played a NYE party at their house, and that was it for me...

 

[Micha84]

Question from a non-gigging bedroom bassist: did you get any impression of what the rest of the band thought of the drummer?

He has been with them for a couple of years at least, so I guess they are fine with it.

Is this the first time the drummer has had a bass player in the band?
Did nobody else see the problem?

The bass player before me was a guitarist in the band first, but switched to bass because he didn't have time to learn parts or even show up to rehearsals regularly. You figure out the rest...

qq - paid or favour for friends?
Do they have any recorded material?
Sounds like it’s either garbage or they have a unique vibe going on.

Favor for a friend. They recorded some gigs that do show the problem, but the drummer is still there.

Is he playing in time ? Right on the beat ?

Actually, yes.

 

[Blues Daddy]

20 years ago I was in a four piece band that had been together for several years when the drummer left . . . we did a few auditions for a replacement drummer and eventually chose a guy ("Jim"). Over the next few gigs we began to realize that although this drummer had good enough rhythms, he basically had one inherent moderate speed.

When we started off a fast song he was fine for a couple verses but by the middle of the song he would gradually slow down . . . . and when we started off a slow song he'd be OK at first, but at some point he would speed up to his own tempo. His tempo-issue was VERY consistent throughout our set lists and as the bass player, I felt it was especially maddening.

We spoke to him about it - he was a nice guy and seemed to understand but somehow couldn't overcome his natural tendencies to change tempos (old dogs and new tricks). Obviously we couldn't continue this way and we were prepared to let him know just after our next gig on the following night. We played a biker bar a few towns over and "Jim" proceeded to get drunk through the night . . . . by the end of the last set he had brought up some guy that had one arm who was sitting in playing the drums. We were rocking some Chuck Berry number and the one armed guy was beating the sh** out of the snare drum!!! . . . while "Jim" was crouched over next to him yelling " is that all you got ? " over and over and over

 

[Lobster11]

I'm all for a drummer "mixing it up" a bit over the course of a song, and for "going with the flow" as he/she feels it, but certainly not at random from bar to bar. Apart from the obvious reasons, changing constantly (ironically) diminishes the positive effects of changing: The longer you lock into a particular groove, the more dramatic the effect when you do something different.