Drummer with no groove, what do you do?

[bslayton]

Has anyone ever had a drummer that can't groove no matter how much you try to work with them? Has anyone ever found a solution?

Problem:

counts instead of feels
won't take advice
tries to show-off and loses timing
over-plays and changes the rhythm of the songs (double kick in Jessie's girls)
plays on top of bass solo's
Can't find the pocket

HEEEEELP!

 

[Jeff Scott]

Don't even get me started on this subject!

Shoot your "drummer".

 

[MarkoYYZ]

Quit.

This guy will never be in a band that functions properly and will hold you back, ultimately wasting your time.
.

 

[mech]

Get another drummer or bail. Life is too short.

 

[M.R. Ogle]

God, I hate to be that guy... but... politely decline your position. Lifes too short to put up with a drummer who has no feel.

 

[MD]

Has anyone ever had a drummer that can't groove no matter how much you try to work with them? Has anyone ever found a solution?

There's always barber school.

And never forget....
"It takes a pretty good drummer to be better than no drummer at all." -- Chet Baker

 

[SBassman]

Depends how serious you want to be about the band.

But, you can be pretty confident the drummer won't improve.

 

[jimfist]

break out a drum machine and immediately burst into a groove....just to demonstrate that ultra simple drumming can groove like a mofo. Then have him practice being a drum machine....it won't help, though. Bail.

 

[nostatic]

I have played in situations like this. The ultimate solution is to bail out, but there also are things that you can learn while playing with them. You have to figure out how to drive the band without being obvious about it. And your playing has to be damn near perfect. If everyone else in the band sees you killing it, then there may end up being some pressure on the drummer to follow suit and let you drive the bus. Basically you'll need an intervention unless the drummer knows his weak points and will defer to you.

One question though - if you're playing stuff like Jessie's Girl, why are there bass solos?

 

[OldDirtyBassist]

Has anyone ever had a drummer that can't groove no matter how much you try to work with them? Has anyone ever found a solution?

Problem:

counts instead of feels
smarter than everyone else so won't take advice
tries too hard to show-off and loses timing
over-plays and changes the rhythm of the songs (double kick in Jessie's girls? REALLY?)
plays on top of bass solo's
doesn't know what a pocket is

HEEEEELP! Someone just shoot me already!

Drummers without instincts aren't much use.

 

[bslayton]

I have played in situations like this. The ultimate solution is to bail out, but there also are things that you can learn while playing with them. You have to figure out how to drive the band without being obvious about it. And your playing has to be damn near perfect. If everyone else in the band sees you killing it, then there may end up being some pressure on the drummer to follow suit and let you drive the bus. Basically you'll need an intervention unless the drummer knows his weak points and will defer to you.

One question though - if you're playing stuff like Jessie's Girl, why are there bass solos?

Slow ride has a great bass solo. I have a few spots in the night when i get to shine.

You are spot on with the comment about driving the band. I'm doing that.

 

[johnson79]

I was trying to play with a guitarist a few months back. He was all about recording little snippets and building a song. I hated it.

I'm now playing with a very old friend who is a monster drummer. I'm having a great time every time we jam. It's so much fun and my playing just improves.

My advice is find a new drummer.

 

[Charley Umbria]

Problem:

counts instead of feels
smarter than everyone else so won't take advice
tries too hard to show-off and loses timing
over-plays and changes the rhythm of the songs (double kick in Jessie's girls? REALLY?)
plays on top of bass solo's
doesn't know what a pocket is

Speaking as someone who's spent over 35 years as a drummer: problems 1, 3, 4, 5, and 6 may be correctable, but number 2 is fatal. One of you will have to go...

Sorry.

 

[Rock Lobster]

Hey man! I get your situation. Right now I'm in a cover band. (we are a young group of guys still in HS) However, my drummer absolutely hates holding out a solid, steady beat. He thinks that it's too boring, even though we tell him he can go crazy in the fills when the time is right. He always changes up his beats and messes around, which makes it extremely tough to play together! I think I'm going to stick with the band though, since we are all still relatively new players improving and trying to find our styles.

 

[wvbass]

plays on top of bass solo's

Bass solo? There's your problem! (kidding)

I've worked with some interesting drummers. One had poor meter and rarely if ever did I like the groove he laid down. Great guy, though, and I learned a lot from him. My meter got better. My groove got better. Both had to - I was providing what he lacked. It really made me improve as a player. Since I was carrying the rhythm section, I couldn't get away with making mistakes.

Another drummer - and another great guy - was a very technical player that tended to play everything a bit too fast. I had to lay behind the beat a lot to try and pull the songs back. Fitting in parts that moved the song forward along with his, umm, very full drum parts was a challenge. We reached a point that it sounded good, but it never did feel quite right to me.

The drummer I work with now is a solid player but lacks confidence. He doubts himself to the point that it makes him make mistakes. But his playing just "feels right" to me. But I will tell you this - the drummer I am comfortable with doesn't push me to be a better player in the way the others did. In fact, I am not the player now that I was then. I can't blame that entirely on the drummer, but it is one factor among many.

OP, you mentioned always wanting to count. I find the other extreme just as frustrating. I am encouraging the guys I work with to count more and rely on feel a little less. Counting is important, too.

 

[wvbass]

One other thought, and one more drummer. I also worked with a guy that was all over the place, all the time. Amazing player, amazing meter, amazing singing voice. For a while, he was almost impossible to groove with. Eventually, we found our compromise. I said, "You give me your kick drum. You can do whatever you want with everything else, but let me have your kick drum." Once he did that, he heard the improvement, and everything fell in line. We became a great team. His pocket improved, and I learned to chase and follow him around when the playing got crazy.

 

[PAguy]

I'm a drummer who now gigs more on bass than drums. My current drummer is good but tends to speed up. I record our gigs a lot and through listening to those recordings my drummer finally realized what he was doing. It took a while though, and at first he was like "there's no way we were playing that song that fast". Tape don't lie I said. Egos are a bitch, but he respects me as a drummer so it's worked out.

If you guys are getting gigs there's a good drummer out there who would want the work. If your guy won't do it right, find someone who will. Your current drummer can/will find another band.

 

[bassbully]

Its a really good cover band & a good money maker. We have peaked & I know we could reach another level.

Really? With a drummer like that? I have never seen a good band with a bad drummer. Fire him.

 

[Torn Bassist]

Maybe suggest using a click track.

 

[5StringBlues]

Trichomes