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Drummer with no groove, what do you do?
- Thread starter bslayton
- Start date
I've played with a few of these. As others have said, you kind of have to step up and drive. Some ideas:
Keep things on tempo. Lock in and hold on. If the rest of the group starts to flounder as a result of the drummer's silliness, play straight fours and reel things in. Make eye contact with the others, nod your head to the beat and get everyone synced up. If the drummer can't or won't follow, well...who looks odd then?
Kick the songs off. Be right there on the "one", even if the drummer isn't. Try and get him to lock in -- in these cases, he should be synced to you, rather than the other way round.
Stay focused. Watch your temper and hold your tongue, especially on the gig. Nothing looks more unprofessional than a band squabbling instead of playing.
Best of luck on this one.
Keep things on tempo. Lock in and hold on. If the rest of the group starts to flounder as a result of the drummer's silliness, play straight fours and reel things in. Make eye contact with the others, nod your head to the beat and get everyone synced up. If the drummer can't or won't follow, well...who looks odd then?
Kick the songs off. Be right there on the "one", even if the drummer isn't. Try and get him to lock in -- in these cases, he should be synced to you, rather than the other way round.
Stay focused. Watch your temper and hold your tongue, especially on the gig. Nothing looks more unprofessional than a band squabbling instead of playing.
Best of luck on this one.
A sign of maturity as a musician is understanding that more is not always better. I have found that musical immaturity has no age limits.
This is an annoying situating, but being a rhythm guy, you may be the only one hearing it. I've been in similar situations and ironically no other band members hear the same thing I hear.
If the drummer is a friend, you guys need to decide how your band will do cover tunes... as close as possible to the original, or your own thing. Point out that you don't hear a double kick in Jesse's Girl. Tell him that is cool if that's the feel that the band is going for. But now you need to rehearse that song (lol) at great length to get your bass line to work with his drums. If he still does not get it, then you'll need to decide how to proceed.
If the drummer is a friend, you guys need to decide how your band will do cover tunes... as close as possible to the original, or your own thing. Point out that you don't hear a double kick in Jesse's Girl. Tell him that is cool if that's the feel that the band is going for. But now you need to rehearse that song (lol) at great length to get your bass line to work with his drums. If he still does not get it, then you'll need to decide how to proceed.
While auditioning drummers I learned that a lot of people own drum sets..............
A sax player friend of mine often says:
"So many drummers----- so little time"
A sax player friend of mine often says:
"So many drummers----- so little time"
Some people have "it" and some people don't. If you don't, "it" is VERY difficult to get if not impossible. Save yourself the frustration and look for a new situation.
Our new drummer first came to my house to go over some of the material. He sat down at my Rogers kit I bought new in 1965.
The stage is now set for my little speech. "I don't care what licks, tricks, frills and fills you can play, if you can't keep time, you are absolutely worthless to me."
It does not come naturally to him but, God love him, when he catches me glaring at his kick drum, he straightens right up.
The other day he was telling us about another local band he went to see and said, "They were pretty good but their drummer is too busy!" I about fell out of my chair.
Your guy needs an intense session involving many, many hours of making him listen to Jeff Pocaro, Bernard Purdie, Jim Keltner, Roger Hawkins, Steve Gadd, Ringo Starr & all the MoTown you can find.
Make him play for weeks with only his kick, snare & hat. Failing that, replace either him or yourself.
The stage is now set for my little speech. "I don't care what licks, tricks, frills and fills you can play, if you can't keep time, you are absolutely worthless to me."
It does not come naturally to him but, God love him, when he catches me glaring at his kick drum, he straightens right up.
The other day he was telling us about another local band he went to see and said, "They were pretty good but their drummer is too busy!" I about fell out of my chair.
Your guy needs an intense session involving many, many hours of making him listen to Jeff Pocaro, Bernard Purdie, Jim Keltner, Roger Hawkins, Steve Gadd, Ringo Starr & all the MoTown you can find.
Make him play for weeks with only his kick, snare & hat. Failing that, replace either him or yourself.
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A drummer with no sense of groove should never be in a band! I don't believe in carrying non contributors! If not my band.....I'm out if the BL won't fire him. If it's my band, he'd never be in my band!
I've played with a drummer that sped up through many of the songs. In an effort to "coach" I brought a metronome. Let's say the song was 120 bmp. We'd get the metronome out for a couple seconds until we "had" the pace of the song, then stopped the metronome and played the song.. Then at the end, I'd get the metronome out at 120 bmp. Pretty eye-opening experience to find out we ended a lot faster than we started.
Then, it's down to #2 on your list. If the band (not just drummer) is open to look in the mirror, there's hope.
Regards
Mark
Then, it's down to #2 on your list. If the band (not just drummer) is open to look in the mirror, there's hope.
Regards
Mark
Ugly truth? A band is never better than their drummer. Following that logic and your description- your band sucks. If you're ok with that then fine, but if you can't convince the other guys to fire him, then they suck too, because they likely can't hear the importance of the problems in their own rhythm section.
Recording rehearsals/gigs is the way to go. Find specific examples of tempo, over playing and feel problems and point them out. If you and other members of the band hear them and agree that it's a problem he has two choices: acknowledge the problems or dig in his heels. Proceed from there.
Chef
In Memoriam
Personally, for me, paying with a drummer I don't click with is just too frustrating.
I'd find another drummer, or, another project if y'all can't work it out.
The suggestion to record a show/rehearsal and get him to listen to himself might help.
I'd find another drummer, or, another project if y'all can't work it out.
The suggestion to record a show/rehearsal and get him to listen to himself might help.
Vintagefiend
I don't care for 410 cabinets at all.
svtb15
Inactive
- Mar 22, 2004
- 13,004
- 4,741
- Disclosures
- I play it all. Whatever works for the gig. Q+
What becomes frustrating to me is if i work with a drummer that has slippery/ sloppy time.. I can totally throw away any idea of him stepping up to the plate and knowing when to Play Behind, On, or on top of the beat when the song requires. Which makes it super frustrating to me.. different songs ( either cover band or other) requires a different feel at times.
Sometimes I will be that *&^holier and say ' TIME IS NOT ONLY A MAGAZINE"
I like to listen to Gadd , Porcaro and Keltner, those guys can lay a deep pocket....
Sometimes I will be that *&^holier and say ' TIME IS NOT ONLY A MAGAZINE"
I like to listen to Gadd , Porcaro and Keltner, those guys can lay a deep pocket....
Quite true and herein lies the rub. You are often the only one that hears the deficiencies in the time and the feel. The "others" simply can't or don't hear the wavering time and the stiff feel they just hear drums. I've brought it up in the past on several occasions regarding the drummer's stiffness, lack of feel and wavering time and they simply don't hear it. Guitars and singers sometimes tend to just "float" on top of the band and as long as it's not horrendously out of time or they drop the beat they don't seem to notice.
But as a bass player where your main deal is locking in with the drums it's really hard when they give you nothing to sink your teeth into. They don't get what a backbeat is and just keep time by pounding the hi hat and the kick and snare are incidental. Or their time is all over the place and you have to keep guessing where the 1 is and it really throws you off.
There's a reason Jeff Porcaro, Kenny Aronoff, Bernard Purdie and guys like that have played on literally thousands of sessions. It wasn't to play solos or show off chops. They have a groove and a feel that very few have and can lay it down quickly. Look at the years that Phil Rudd was out of AC/DC. The other guys were good don't get me wrong but there was just "something" missing and it returned when Phil did. There's just some intrinsic thing about how he plays that makes AC/DC work that can't be duplicated.
Listen to Billie Jean there's hardly a fill in the whole song but it's one of the greatest grooves of all time IMHO. You hear 2 seconds of it and you know immediately what it is.
