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Drummer with no groove, what do you do?
- Thread starter bslayton
- Start date
svtb15
Inactive
- Mar 22, 2004
- 13,004
- 4,741
- Disclosures
- I play it all. Whatever works for the gig. Q+
A friend of mine says.. "If you are the Smartest person in the room, find another room!" Thats what happening here... I too am about ready to find another room... I need to grow and a bad drummer will only hold ya down .. Like a Concrete block around your neck in a 5 mile deep ocean.
Another suggestion is if doing covers, and you want the feel, make sure your drummer actually listened to the song.. the original that is. Few times I realized the drummer was just winging it, and never really listened to the song. We're all busy, and I get it. If that's the case, take a copy to practice, and have everybody listen. Point out the trouble spots, and hopefully work through it.
Musical difficulties - we can talk it out.
Won't talk - one of us walks.
Working with a drummer with issues can be a real drag, but I've gigged with some young guys who were open to learning some new things, and eager to pick up whatever tips they could from the... ahem... more experienced guys. This can be a great position to be in, mentoring a younger player. I'm not perfect either, and I've learned a heck of a lot from drummers I've worked with.
If the under performing drummer's attitude and ego suck, and I can't even talk to him, I'll do my darnedest to never have to work with him again. That includes giving my impression of his abilities and attitude to the person who hired us in the first place.
Won't talk - one of us walks.
Working with a drummer with issues can be a real drag, but I've gigged with some young guys who were open to learning some new things, and eager to pick up whatever tips they could from the... ahem... more experienced guys. This can be a great position to be in, mentoring a younger player. I'm not perfect either, and I've learned a heck of a lot from drummers I've worked with.
If the under performing drummer's attitude and ego suck, and I can't even talk to him, I'll do my darnedest to never have to work with him again. That includes giving my impression of his abilities and attitude to the person who hired us in the first place.
That's the other side of the coin too. Is he willing to A. accept that his skills aren't quite up to the task and B. willing to work on it. My old drummer literally couldn't hear that his time was off and his feel wasn't happening. I'd play him stuff I taped of shows and he'd just go "I'm playing the parts on the record I don't know what you're getting at."
People don't like to hear they aren't cutting it. I know I've had to eat crow a few times when I was told that. But I had to assess my own playing and realize that yeah they're right and I went back to the woodshed and practiced. I literally got into a fistfight with another drummer because I mentioned that his feel was off and his drums sounded like crap because I dared insult his "style." Ahh musicians...
I recently joined a band that had a drummer almost exactly like this, except that my drummer didn't count or feel. It took me about four practices to find out that I didn't need to be in that band. It wouldn't have taken me that long except that the first two practices he just walked around playing the part of Mr. Cool Bandleader.
That's the other side of the coin too. Is he willing to A. accept that his skills aren't quite up to the task and B. willing to work on it. My old drummer literally couldn't hear that his time was off and his feel wasn't happening. I'd play him stuff I taped of shows and he'd just go "I'm playing the parts on the record I don't know what you're getting at."
People don't like to hear they aren't cutting it. I know I've had to eat crow a few times when I was told that. But I had to assess my own playing and realize that yeah they're right and I went back to the woodshed and practiced. I literally got into a fistfight with another drummer because I mentioned that his feel was off and his drums sounded like crap because I dared insult his "style." Ahh musicians...
Being a musician isn't a 'by' from being a mature human being. I'm a supervisor in my day job. I have to talk to people about their performance. We don't deal with problems by ignoring them, we deal with them by talking them through and coming up with solutions. It's not about berating someone, it's about working together to improve. My people accept this. Why can't most musicians?
Uh, a drummer with no groove is not a drummer. He is some guy who owns drums.
Dealing with this exact situation right now. I have been working with one drummer with over 50 years experience for the last several years ... it has been great, guy is a local legend ... BUT he left one of the 2 projects we were both working. The guy we picked for the open spot came from our experience playing with him at a local blues jam. Our sets are very straight ahead blues/blues-rock, in a word he is over thinking it and trying too hard. Might have to try what we did with another drummer and take the toys away ... basically a stripped down kit so he just concentrates on groove ... We shall see!
svtb15
Inactive
- Mar 22, 2004
- 13,004
- 4,741
- Disclosures
- I play it all. Whatever works for the gig. Q+
Its weird but i usually can tell by the end of the first verse that its happening or not.. But ive had a few drummers Years ago that i could tell within the first measure or two that its gonna be a rough one..
ESPECIALLY when the drummer counts it off at 130bpm and the second he starts to play there was an abrupt drop and you are at 120bpm or less.. its a *** moment of surprise!
ESPECIALLY when the drummer counts it off at 130bpm and the second he starts to play there was an abrupt drop and you are at 120bpm or less.. its a *** moment of surprise!
The thing about putting up with this sort of tension is that the audience feels it too. Yes, they do. They can do their best to enjoy the moment but they also feel and know when something isnt clicking right and they translate it to others in simple, non-musical terms: "the band sucked!".
On top of this it hurts your reputation when you keep playing in bad lineups instead of shopping for something else. "That bass player's pretty good!...why has he been with this bunch of clowns for so long?....probably has a drug problem and these are his party bros..."
Unrealistic?...maybe. And maybe not.
Still slagging along with this burden robs you of opportunities to play with better bandmates in an enjoyable and creative environment. Music is not supposed to be a chore, so don't allow it to be. Sometimes there arent better options at the moment, but let somebody else endure this misery while you learn, improve and create at home.
Point #2 is intolerable. This is not a drummer; this is a guy who owns a drumset and hits them. He is not and might never be a musician.
There comes a point when music is a trade like any other...like carpentry, bricklaying, tayloring, etc. In order to work with the rest of the team each person has to have the proper skills, training, knowlege and ethic for that team to remain in business. Bad co-workers are purged and replaced with competent ones. If management doesnt purge bad co-workers and everyone suffers you find another team or form your own.
It's not complicated. However, since artists and musicians are a sensitive and empathetic bunch, the band management forum is rife with stories of players who suffer incompetence ad nauseum because THIS situation is somehow THE situation and we don't think there's anything to move on to and what will they think of us if we leave??
Here's news: ultimately you're not that impotant to them. You'll be forgiven or forgotten. They are important to themselves and you should be important to yourself. Ic they decide that you are important enough to them a change will be made. Until then, to thine own self be true.
On top of this it hurts your reputation when you keep playing in bad lineups instead of shopping for something else. "That bass player's pretty good!...why has he been with this bunch of clowns for so long?....probably has a drug problem and these are his party bros..."
Unrealistic?...maybe. And maybe not.
Still slagging along with this burden robs you of opportunities to play with better bandmates in an enjoyable and creative environment. Music is not supposed to be a chore, so don't allow it to be. Sometimes there arent better options at the moment, but let somebody else endure this misery while you learn, improve and create at home.
Point #2 is intolerable. This is not a drummer; this is a guy who owns a drumset and hits them. He is not and might never be a musician.
There comes a point when music is a trade like any other...like carpentry, bricklaying, tayloring, etc. In order to work with the rest of the team each person has to have the proper skills, training, knowlege and ethic for that team to remain in business. Bad co-workers are purged and replaced with competent ones. If management doesnt purge bad co-workers and everyone suffers you find another team or form your own.
It's not complicated. However, since artists and musicians are a sensitive and empathetic bunch, the band management forum is rife with stories of players who suffer incompetence ad nauseum because THIS situation is somehow THE situation and we don't think there's anything to move on to and what will they think of us if we leave??
Here's news: ultimately you're not that impotant to them. You'll be forgiven or forgotten. They are important to themselves and you should be important to yourself. Ic they decide that you are important enough to them a change will be made. Until then, to thine own self be true.
Don't even get me started on this subject!
Shoot your "drummer".
EXACTLY !! Send 'em out to pasture. A drummer with no groove is bad for us and the environment
I like that idea. Good drummers can groove on a 3-piece kit. No need for a lot of pots and pans.
Regards
Mark
A drummer like you described is going nowhere and it will catch up to the band. As much as you are expected to know your role so should he. If not you need to decide if you can deal with it or not.
No - shoot him. Not only will you solve your misery, you will prevent him from inflicting his misery on other bass players. Think of it as community service. But seriously, if you continue to try to play with him, to try to help him, all you are going to do is to ruin your own "feel" and waste your time.
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