Ha funny I was thinking about Dave getting replaced by Sammy but that applies too!Good point, Roth replaced Eddie with Steve Vai, Michael with Billy Sheehan and Alex with that other drummer!
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Drummer with no groove, what do you do?
- Thread starter bslayton
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A bass player is only as good as his drummer. Unless you're going solo.
Sorry man, you gotta find a new drummer.
Though I have to say, I've heard of (and played with) lots of upright guitarists similar to your drummer, but it's kind of weird for a drummer to be so stuck up.
- Oct 18, 2012
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I had a drummer who would count instead of feel, speed up as the song went on. If the rhythm changed, he would change the tempo and he would usually be out of time when he came out of his fills. We discussed our concerns with him several times and when he didn't improve, we fired him. We did so in a professional manner and we are still friends.
I agree... and in any band IMO if there was one single instrument that must be tight it is the drums. Even if he can't do fancy grooves.. if he can keep steady time that is half the battle becauyse the other stuff can be learned.. but if he can't keep tempo or doesn't realize he is playing with other people and not by himself those are deeper issues...
I was being a bit factitious there. It was argued on here before that judging someone's talent is arbitrary because everyone has an different opinion of what's "good."
Also it's on the BL to recognize that someone has a deficiency and make the appropriate call. If you can't see that your bad drummer or drunken guitar player with mental issues is making the rest of the band miserable and hindering your progress then be ready for a lot of turnover. Very few people are irreplaceable. Ask David Lee Roth about that.
I can dig it but in many cases you were right... I also think that the primary responsibility of recognizing deficiencies falls on the person with the deficiency. I have no problem when I get criticism and I don't try to go beyond my limitations in live situations..
And what is this thing called a bass solo you speak of?
Main band Im currently in has a drummer EXACTLY like this..
The guy counts everything, can't setup a song without counting it off, not only can he not groove either, but he can't or doesn't do accents.
Can't get rid of him either because he is a friend/neighbor of the one guitar player and much butt-hurtness will ensue.
I pretty much deal with it by following the vocalists and making my own groove happen...it sucks, but it is what it is.
I've never heard a band sound good with a flat out bad drummer.
Thanks for all the advice. After lots of contemplation the only reasonable solution is a shock collar.
I'm having a similar problem. Hopefully it's unique enough that I'm not repeating anything already discussed.
My scenario:
An old friend of mine (the drummer) had been asking me to play with him and a mutual friend (guitar) for months. I've played guitar for many years but they were looking for a bass player and wanted me to try it out. The guitar player had a bass and amp for me to use and they just needed someone to hold down the low end while they "jam" at his house once a week. Whatever.
Low and behold, the guitar player and I clicked in regard to the music we like and wanted to play. We immediately bonded and starting talking at length about the potential of our new "band".
Fast forward about a year and I've already bought two bass guitars and have been practicing like a mad-man. It's the same feeling I got when I first learned to play guitar - I love it!
The problem is, as I've progressed with my playing I began to notice how groove-impaired my drummer-friend is. I've talked to the guitar player and we both agree that his playing is lackluster.
My issue is that I'm the one that was invited to play so it is very hard to be critical - especially since I'm new to the group AND new to my instrument. But we play a lot of funky, backbeat stuff and he drums like a caveman in a marching band.
We've tried talking to our drummer but he does not seem to have the drive that I and our guitar player have. He won't practice. He doesn't hear what he's doing wrong. He does not take criticism well...AT ALL.
So in a nutshell I'm stuck with him unless I find another band to play with which, at the moment, I don't really want to do. I click with the guitar player and we have some really cool songs in our repertoire. The situation with him is almost ideal and I'd hate to shake things up too much right now.
What can I bring to the table to get him to start paying more attention to his style and groove? I just can't seem to connect with him on a musical level. He's incredibly stubborn and thinks he's a great drummer so whenever I even slightly hint at him improving his chops, he bristles. I don't want to be overbearing or sound like a jerk and I already feel like I'm beating a dead horse. I know he can do it - we have moments where we click and he seems to get it but that typically peters out after the first chorus. I often feel like I'm trying to groove over the random sounds of a typewriter.
And the kicker is our drummer is the one that keeps pushing us to play out in front of people - he is totally unaware of how sloppy we sound.
My scenario:
An old friend of mine (the drummer) had been asking me to play with him and a mutual friend (guitar) for months. I've played guitar for many years but they were looking for a bass player and wanted me to try it out. The guitar player had a bass and amp for me to use and they just needed someone to hold down the low end while they "jam" at his house once a week. Whatever.
Low and behold, the guitar player and I clicked in regard to the music we like and wanted to play. We immediately bonded and starting talking at length about the potential of our new "band".
Fast forward about a year and I've already bought two bass guitars and have been practicing like a mad-man. It's the same feeling I got when I first learned to play guitar - I love it!
The problem is, as I've progressed with my playing I began to notice how groove-impaired my drummer-friend is. I've talked to the guitar player and we both agree that his playing is lackluster.
My issue is that I'm the one that was invited to play so it is very hard to be critical - especially since I'm new to the group AND new to my instrument. But we play a lot of funky, backbeat stuff and he drums like a caveman in a marching band.
We've tried talking to our drummer but he does not seem to have the drive that I and our guitar player have. He won't practice. He doesn't hear what he's doing wrong. He does not take criticism well...AT ALL.
So in a nutshell I'm stuck with him unless I find another band to play with which, at the moment, I don't really want to do. I click with the guitar player and we have some really cool songs in our repertoire. The situation with him is almost ideal and I'd hate to shake things up too much right now.
What can I bring to the table to get him to start paying more attention to his style and groove? I just can't seem to connect with him on a musical level. He's incredibly stubborn and thinks he's a great drummer so whenever I even slightly hint at him improving his chops, he bristles. I don't want to be overbearing or sound like a jerk and I already feel like I'm beating a dead horse. I know he can do it - we have moments where we click and he seems to get it but that typically peters out after the first chorus. I often feel like I'm trying to groove over the random sounds of a typewriter.
And the kicker is our drummer is the one that keeps pushing us to play out in front of people - he is totally unaware of how sloppy we sound.
We actually did that last night and played it back after each song. I let the tape roll without making any comments about anyone's parts and the drummer just shook his head and walked out after hearing it.
He wants to jam, he wants the band to get better but he DOESNT WANT to admit he has a lot of work to do.
You are dealing with cognitive dissidence, all truth and reality (& recordings) will be dismissed because it doesn't fit what they want to believe. I think all that drum banging shakes their cerebral cortex loose. Creepy!
Good way to look at it!
He's literally texting me right now asking when we will play again and honestly, I'm starting to not look forward to it like I used to. I know I'm going to go and get frustrated - perhaps much of this is a personal issue I need to get over?
We have about 20 songs we know and he's asking to learn more but we can't even nail down the ones we already play. If I could only get him to start listening to us and the original recordings in a critical way. His approach - "I heard it - I'll just feel it out."
You tell this dude to swing and he rolls his eyes. You tell him to play a shuffle and he plays this odd disco sorta beat. Mention a backbeat and he goes cross-eyed
^^^
If he can't even speak the language of rhythm, he is just incompetent. Period.
Time for someone to cut bait.
If he can't even speak the language of rhythm, he is just incompetent. Period.
Time for someone to cut bait.
He could speak the language if he would try - that's the frustrating part. He has an instant aversion to any mention of rhythm fundamentals which makes it incredibly difficult to talk shop with him.
Its almost as if he's afraid to let on how little he knows so he won't listen, won't ask questions and WONT get better!
Regarding the bait - I'm the new guy thus not really in the place to replace. So being stuck with him, I'm trying to find a way to not only teach him but first and foremost get him thinking and talking like a musician.
A real conversation we had a few weeks ago went like this:
Me - "Hey, just listen for the return back to the root note. We play one bar there, then..."
Him - "DUDE - what the %&#$ is a root note?"
::
ulls hair out:::
