Drummers issue...

[saustindavis]

I am looking for some advise on how to bring up some problems we've been having with our drummer, and things to avoid. He is a really talented drummer, but on a certain song, and sometimes parts of others, he speeds WAY up and his fill get so complicated that we lose the beat or he can't finish it before the down beat comes back around.

He is spot on 90% of the time, but we just need him to chill out a little and stay in the pocket better. I have been harping on not speeding up at practice, but not really directed at him (even though he is usually the problem), and things have improved slightly but not to the point we'd like.

He takes direction fairly well when one of us has an idea for the drums part, and is pretty mellow and easy going, I just don't want to offend him too much (just enough to get him to fix the problems...). Any advice you have would be AWESOME!

 

[tangentmusic]

He is spot on 90% of the time, but we just need him to chill out a little and stay in the pocket better.

You just said it. Say it to him (again)

 

[GodinFan]

I am looking for some advise on how to bring up some problems we've been having with our drummer, and things to avoid. He is a really talented drummer, but on a certain song, and sometimes parts of others, he speeds WAY up and his fill get so complicated that we lose the beat or he can't finish it before the down beat comes back around.

Talent and ability are not the same thing. He needs to do some shedding with a metronome.

He takes direction fairly well when one of us has an idea for the drums part, and is pretty mellow and easy going, I just don't want to offend him too much (just enough to get him to fix the problems... Any advice you have would be AWESOME!

Suggest rehearsing the whole band using a click track.

 

[Foamy]

Record a rehearsal without making any criticisms. Just record it.
Later, on your own, listen to the recording and try and quantify the problem.
Maybe it's not as bad as you think, or maybe its worse.
Then you can play it back at the next rehearsal with some constructive approach.
But don't make it an "all the drummer's fault" issue, even if it is.
Just take it as a thing that the band needs to work on.

 

[livinitup0]

I'd suggest recording the practice.
If you can just approach him nonconfrontationally and say "hey dude... i recorded the last practice and found some stuff I need to work on... but... check this out... this is what im talking about with those fills/speeding up"

a drummer that can keep a beat and plays zero fills is 100x better than one that can fill like a monster but cant keep 120bps up for a couple minutes....something to keep in mind if the situation doesnt improve.

 

[singlemalt]

Don't be shy, call him on it. Next train wreck fill, stop and say something. You are not doing him any favors pretending that what he did works. Be nice, but say something, it's not a personal slander that you point out he is few beats over the bar line.

Record a song, with what ever means you have however low tech (boom box), take a break and listen to it. Low fidelity won't mask timing issues.

Start a song with the metronome and see where you are when you finish. Get him a metronome that has an earphone out and a flashing or led display that he can monitor as you play. Or put it through the PA or something.

 

[saustindavis]

Talent and ability are not the same thing. He needs to do some shedding with a metronome.




Suggest rehearsing the whole band using a click track.

Ok, I guess I need to clarify that he is really talented, and very skilled, but sometimes goes overboard. He came from a metal band, and sometimes gets stuck in the faster=better mindset. He has a metronome, maybe we will feed it through the PA and practice with it next time.

 

[extreme]

He's not gonna change unless he really wants to. If he wanted to change he'd be working on that stuff. Either live with it or cut bait.

 

[Foamy]

I'm not sure about the advice to rehearsing with a click-track.
I can't argue too much about it, but that's a bit too much IN YO FACE for me.
If I were a drummer, and someone brought that suggestion out in front of everyone at a rehearsal, I'd be pretty ticked.
On the other hand, if somebody were to tell me, one-on-one, 'Hey, dude, can you work a bit on timing? Here're a couple concerns....', that'd be a different story, and more likely to have a positive outcome.

 

[Marko 1]

I'm not sure about the advice to rehearsing with a click-track.
I can't argue too much about it, but that's a bit too much IN YO FACE for me.
If I were a drummer, and someone brought that suggestion out in front of everyone at a rehearsal, I'd be pretty ticked.
On the other hand, if somebody were to tell me, one-on-one, 'Hey, dude, can you work a bit on timing? Here're a couple concerns....', that'd be a different story, and more likely to have a positive outcome.

+1, along with all the good things there is to say about his drumming.

 

[saustindavis]

Our guitarist actually had a great idea. He sent out an email as a recap of the night and asked for everyone to respond doing the same, and in it he mentioned the one song that got out of control on drums. I think giving the drummer a chance to chime in on things he thinks can be improved will make him feel less like he's being singled out. I'll respond to the email in the morning, and mention what I think could improve that song, and if that doesn't get the point across we will straight up tell him.

 

[GodinFan]

I'm not sure about the advice to rehearsing with a click-track.
I can't argue too much about it, but that's a bit too much IN YO FACE for me.

And if the band decides to do some recording, what's one of the first hurdles they're likely to encounter?

Playing to click.

If everyone plays with a click, there's benefit to the other musicians in learning to work with a click, and it should serve to highlight any tempo shifts the drummer makes.

 

[Foamy]

And if the band decides to do some recording, what's one of the first hurdles they're likely to encounter?

Playing to click.

If everyone plays with a click, there's benefit to the other musicians in learning to work with a click, and it should serve to highlight any tempo shifts the drummer makes.

Dude, of course.
That is not the point of this thread or my advice.
I don't care though - if he wants to call the guy out in front of the band, go ahead.
People aren't machines. We can only be expected to do the best we can do.
And personally, if someone has a problem with me or my technique, I'd prefer they at least show me common courtesy and speak to me one-on-one, face-to-face, before announcing their concerns in front of the entire band.

 

[saustindavis]

Dude, of course.
That is not the point of this thread or my advice.
I don't care though - if he wants to call the guy out in front of the band, go ahead.
People aren't machines. We can only be expected to do the best we can do.
And personally, if someone has a problem with me or my technique, I'd prefer they at least show me common courtesy and speak to me one-on-one, face-to-face, before announcing their concerns in front of the entire band.

Good call. I'll keep that in mind.

 

[44me]

Just talk to the drummer, by yourself, so he doesn't fell like you're all ganging up on him. If he really is good, he's going to appreciate the constructive criticism and want to improve on his weaknesses. I'd offer to get together with him for an hour or so before a full band rehearsal to work on some grooves.

 

[billhilly66]

I’m working on a shock collar for drummers with a footswitch. I’m thinking I can sell them for $99.99. Any interest?

 

[ibateur]

yeah play to click. Something I personally found very useful when I was playing drums.

And yes, the one-on-one "we are the rhythm section... the foundation... we're in it together" chat is a great help as well and not ego destroying.

Shock collar...

 

[kraigo]

I play drums. If it were brought up to me I'd look at it as an opportunity to step up my game. Have him check out Billy Ward's video "Big Time". For that matter it's got great information for all musicians. For bassists, it's got about a half an hour of Billy Ward playing with Andy Hess that is pure edutainment.

Find that metronome in the back of your skull and play to it. For the drummer, start clicking the hi-hat foot in quarter notes or do the Billy Ward trick and move your jaw in quarter notes.

This doesn't have to be a confrontational issue. Do your best to make it constructive.

KO

 

[tZer]

IMO and IME people who are in a half-way serious band and who are half-way serious musicians should be able to discuss the execution of the song without concern or fear that anyone will take it personally.

Some people have too much of their ego wrapped up in how they play - or their own perception of how they play - and when constructive criticism is offered, they process it entirely wrong and get miffed. But that's their problem, not yours as long as you are not leveling personal insults at him about his playing, that is...

You and everyone else in the band should feel like you can make any comment you feel needs to be made about how the song was played. You and everyone else should also be able to listen to each other's comments and take them as constructive criticism and not personal insults.

As for metronomes and click-tracks as a solution - I think the first step is to simply say that you feel there's a tempo issue in song x - and that you think it's speeding up here and there - and you'd like to work on those parts to see if you can correct them as a group. If the drummer decides he's got some personal practice to do and that practice includes using a metronome, sobeit.

Talk about the song as the song - not necessarily about each other's parts - but the song as a whole. Let him know you think it's pushing in parts and ask him if he'll pay attention to those places with you and see if he agrees. It's possible that he's right and you are dragging. It's also possible that he's rushing and you are right. Sometimes you hear a song a certain way in your head that actually includes tempo fluctuations - and removing them and making the song lock-step with a 'nome makes the song sound 'wrong' even though it's "technologically and mechanically right".

 

[ksandvik]

If you ever attend a lot of jams you will encounter all kinds of 'problem drummers.':

* Can't keep the pace, not even for two bars.
* Speeds up along the song, getting excited.
* Strange fills that does not end at the end of the bar.
* Weak drumming that does not provide any pace.
* Complicated drumming that has nothing to do with the song structure.
* Or then does not know how a particular style of drumming is used for that style (funk, latin...)
* And then the totally unpredictable chaotic drummer with all of those mentioned plus more more causing mayhem.

90% of that could be corrected over time if the drummer is receptive to feedback and actually takes that as a positive comment and tries to improve. If not, just avoid such drummers.

You could try to cover a lot of those mistakes with the rest of the band but it's mostly hard to do as drumming so important in contemporary music.