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Dyn-B, AI Coda, no pre

Discussion in 'Amps, Mics & Pickups [DB]' started by Tom Baldwin, Dec 17, 2003.


  1. Pardon my nagging, but has anyone tried a Schertler Dyn-B directly into the mic channel (XLR input) of an Acoustic Image Coda, without the preamp, and if so, how did that compare to the sound with the preamp? I am interested in trying the Dyn-B either by itself or in combination with an Underwood, but if I can avoid having to use the preamp, that would be one less thing to mess with. And cheaper, of course. ;)
     
  2. Monte

    Monte

    Jan 9, 2001
    New Albany, MS
    I have not done it with the COda, but after a few years of using it with a Contra and everything else under the sun, I doubt that it will sound great without the preamp, specifically because of the notch filter (Schertler calls it the resonance filter). Now if you have a good parametric and can filter out the bad frequency @ 180 hz I can see no reason for the preamp. It doesn't really seem to do anything else for the sound. I did notice that my Stat B sounds much better with the Pre A II than it ever did with the Stat pre.

    The guy I bought my Schertler Pub speaker from is using his Dyn B with a Coda. You might ask him. PM message me and I'll try to find his e-mail.

    Monte
     
  3. LowNote

    LowNote Supporting Member

    Jan 31, 2002
    Edinburgh, Scotland
    Monte,

    I am a very satisfied user of a Stat-B on a Dan Hatchez carved bass. I run it through the little pre-amp that came with it into either a Woods Ultra or AI Clarus and then speakers to match the requirements of the gig. I get a lot of compliments on the sound of the bass and the amplification system.

    However, I'm intriqued by your statement that the Schertler Pre-A made a big improvement in the sound of the Stat-B. Can you try and put in words just what that difference is? I haven't bought any gear for my string bass rig for a while and may want to consider this.

    Erik Hansen
    Los Angeles
     
  4. Monte

    Monte

    Jan 9, 2001
    New Albany, MS
    Erik,

    After you made me think about it, I realized I can't give an unqualified statement that the Pre A II is responsible for the sound improvement in the Stat.

    As I thought about it, now the Stat is on
    A) A different bass!!
    B) Is going into the Schertler Pub speaker instead of the Contra.

    Gee, no wonder it is different.

    Aside from that, the sound doesn't have a ringing mid-range or electric-ky E string which I faced before. I'm really enjoying using the Stat into the Pub speaker as a stage monitor in louder situations, and sending my AKG C3000 into the house. I'm going to do that tomorrow-Saturday at this huge club that I've never played at before, so we'll see how it goes.

    Monte
     
  5. LowNote

    LowNote Supporting Member

    Jan 31, 2002
    Edinburgh, Scotland
    Thanks for the prompt reply. I've fooled around a bit with the PUB speaker but couldn't get myself to make a change to something that seemed quite heavy to me. Good luck with the gig tomorrow night.

    Erik
     
  6. Monte

    Monte

    Jan 9, 2001
    New Albany, MS
    Yeah, it is small but heavy at 44 lbs. I bungee it to a luggage cart with a backpack and stand, and it is easy to haul around.

    Thanks for the good wishes for this weekend. I'm looking forward to it. Our singer/ pianist is coming back from NY for the holidays, and we are using a great young jazz drummer from Austin so our drummer can play trumpet (his main instrument).

    Monte
     
  7. poalf

    poalf

    Feb 27, 2003
    Phoenix, Az
    Monte,
    Do you now favor the Stat-B over the Dyn-B?

    I'm still happy with the sound of my set up (Schertler everything... except bass) and haven't run into feedback problems but am finding that the Pub doesn't move as much air as I'd like.. It'd probably be okay except that the guitar player (a steel resophonic with a peizo) likes to make his ears bleed with the monitors.
     
  8. Adrian Cho

    Adrian Cho Supporting Member

    Sep 17, 2001
    Ottawa, Canada
    I have a Coda and I initially bought the Dyn-B without the Pre-A II and tried it both directly into the Coda's mic input as well as through other mic preamps. I wasn't happy with the sound and subsequently tried it with the pre and found that the resonance filter makes all the difference. I should also mention that I tried the Stat-B before I got the Dyn and I didn't like it. I found it too harsh and hard and the excessive amplification of the fingerboard noise (which I believe is unavoidable with any transducer in contact with the bridge) was unrealistic to me. One of the great things about the Dyn is that it's one of the few transducers that does not contact the bridge.

    My Dyn is my backup nowadays to my AMT S25B mic. When the situation is too loud and there's too much bleed into the mic, I use or mix in the Dyn.
     
  9. Everyone - thanks for all the replies. Adrian - valuable info, thanks. Do you find that the difference between the AMT and other mics is worth the high price? Also, I see that Lemur now carries the Dyn-B for $565 :eek: At that price, I sure hope the preamp is included!
     
  10. Adrian Cho

    Adrian Cho Supporting Member

    Sep 17, 2001
    Ottawa, Canada
    The only other mics I tried before using the AMT were an AKG C4000B and an Audio-Technica AT4047/SV mounted on stands. I also tried a Rode NT3 mounted between the bridge legs with rubber bands. If I have the opportunity, I will still use the AT4047/SV on the stand as it is the best but of course nowhere as convenient as the AMT (and more bleed and feedback prone).

    I should also mention that I have the tailpiece upgrade on the AMT, not the body mount you see in most of the pics. The base of the mic mounts on the tailpiece to which is fixed a gooseneck (you can tell them how long to make it) with the capsule in a large(r) isolation ring (shockmount).

    I am aware that there are other bass mounted mics around but I never really heard conclusively good things about most of them. Golden Trinity is one of them. Some people are happy with them and others not. Whereas the AMT has a lot of well known users (e.g. Pattituci). And no I'm not swayed by AMT's extensive list of endorsers. I know many of those (e.g. Rufus Reid who was involved in the initial development of the mic) are now using other options (e.g. Dyn-B). What convinced me was that I borrowed someone else's AMT and I spoke extensively with AMT tech support (the mic's designer - Marty Paglione) and found them extremely knowledgeable and helpful and willing to go to extra lengths to meet the needs of their customers (e.g. custom work on the mic or the preamp). I had an opportunity to purchase a slightly used on and snapped it up. Actually what I have now is almost completely new because when I sent it in for the tailpiece upgrade, they replaced everything including the mic capsule (although they gave me the option to retain it) and the preamp box (kept my preamp internals). I have the "super" version of the preamp that has extra outputs on it too.

    Basically the AMT sound is great and it is quite resistent to bleed and feedback. The only thing that's bad is that I have a tendency to slap the fingerboard when I play certain latin rhythms and I have to curtail that because it is easily picked up by the mic since it's in close promixity to the fingerboard (which is what I wanted). Also, when I drop my bow in the quiver, there is a slight thump picked up by the mic too.

    One thing about the Dyn-B is that like every other pickup, it's still excessively loud when you switch to arco. Since it is not in contact with the bridge, it's a lot better but it's still not as good as a mic in that respect.
     
  11. I once was lost, but now am found...:)
     
  12. Monte

    Monte

    Jan 9, 2001
    New Albany, MS
    I actually have to disagree with this. Maybe it has to do with placement. If anything, arco with the Dyn B is slightly less volume than pizz. The Stat is slightly louder, but not by much.

    Monte
     
  13. Monte

    Monte

    Jan 9, 2001
    New Albany, MS
    I wouldn't say I favor either one, but I'm really liking the Stat B when I need to move more air.

    The interesting thing about the Stat B to me is that before I used it on the gig, I used it in my living room, and while it was better than most piezos, it was definitely not as microphonic as the Dyn B. However, when I got it in a larger room, it really sounded great and natural.

    My conclusions are that at a loud volume the Stat sounds more microphonic than the Dyn B, but the Dyn B sounds best through a really good PA or at lower levels.

    By the way, you can buy the Stat pickup alone (without the Stat pre) and use it with your Pre A II, and it is not nearly as expensive as the Stat B combo. I think the pickup alone is ~ $150.

    Monte
     
  14. poalf

    poalf

    Feb 27, 2003
    Phoenix, Az
    At the risk of flogging this thing to a bloody pulp. Is it the amp or the amp/Dyn combination that doesn't work as well at higher levels? I currently line out into the PA and that seems to work well (unless the guitar player cranks up his monitor), but I've been thinking a good 2x10 (ACME? or EA) with a 600W QSC amp and a small Mackie mixer with the Dyn-B may give me the sound AND volume.
     
  15. That might help. I am playing my Dyn-B with PreA II through a Lab Gruppen power amp and one or two 1x10" Glockenklang speakers and the volume is always there when I need it, without feedback.

    Vincent

    P.S.: why using a Mackie mixer and not your Schertler preamp, Poalf? Or are you planning on connecting the preamp to the mixer?
     
  16. poalf

    poalf

    Feb 27, 2003
    Phoenix, Az
    I'm not sure I can plug the preAII directly into a Crown or QSC power amp. Currently I go from the preAII "dry out" to the board and the "output" to the Pub. Will "output" directly into a PA amp work? I assumed there was still a line voltage/ impedance mismatch that needed a mixer in between to correct. I store the PA at my house... I'll have to try it out in the next few days.
     
  17. I connect the Schertler pre directly to my power amp with no problems at all. After all, the PreA II is a regular preamp. Its output signal is more than sufficient to feed a power amp.

    Vincent
     
  18. poalf

    poalf

    Feb 27, 2003
    Phoenix, Az
    Vincent:
    You are correct. The preAII works fine directly into the Crown. I think my confusion came when I was trying do go directly into the Crown with a Fishman Pro. The xlr out was mic level (DI) and, if I remember right, the 1/4" out was instrument level... neither one enough to drive the Crown.
     
  19. Hi poalf,

    Glad everything worked fine. But how was the sound compared to the Schertler Pub? I do not own this box, and I would like to know wether or not I should regret that I don't.

    Vincent
     
  20. poalf

    poalf

    Feb 27, 2003
    Phoenix, Az
    Vincent:
    The short answer is I don't think you'll regret not having one.

    I still really like the sound of the Pub. It is tight, clean and uncolored. The reason I jumped into this thread was lack of volume for outdoor gigs and losing monitor wars.

    I plugged the Crown into our Yamaha 10" 2-way floor monitor and it didn't sound so good. Then I grabbed the 15" 2-way main Yamaha cabs and it sounded much better. Close, but still not quite as good as the Pub: definitely moved more air.

    How it compares with an uncolored bass speaker 2x8 or 2x10 (EA or ACME or your Glockenlangs), I don't know but at some point plan to find out.

    The Pub is small and compact, sounds great and I don't plan on getting rid of it. The downside is that it's not light and with only an 8" speaker and 200W (+the 80W to the tweeter), I think it is limited where it can be used.

    I like your approach with a high power PA amp, clean uncolored pre-amp (preA II)and ability add more speakers (volume) depending on the venue. Were I to do it over again, that's the route I would try.

    As long as I can plug into a PA there's no rush. As soon as there's a gig outside or with no PA I'm in trouble.