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EBMM DarkRay Impressions

T

tremor100

Jul 28, 2006
437
806
#1
So i had an opportunity today to try a EBMM darkray in a used music store - which is a pretty rare find where i am.

Going to be honest, all it really did was re-enforce that i like my stingray special - and that aside from it being "neat" - it seemed kind of pointless. It felt and played amazingly (like a stingray special since its the same body/neck wise) and sounded great in all modes for the most part... but i found the controls for the two distortion circuits pretty much pointless. So keep in mind this was at a music store (and not through my own normal amp) but i felt like the 2 band EQ was different from the Stringray special EQ cut/boost frequency range - maybe i will be disproven on that and they are the same, but I feel like the range of tones i could get with it completely cut to completely cranked was much narrower in both directions.

On my stingray special, truthfully i don't really often touch the mid knob on my Stringray special so it didn't seem like that was missing, i keep it at the detent.. but normally i do the treble up like 5-10% boost, and bass up 10-15%, but when i need gritty tone or slap even just boosting the treble to 30% is more than enough, and if i roll the bass knob all the way up i can basically get a subwoofery tone when i need it for things like sublime or songs where the bass is just super deep - cranking the Bass and treble knob on the darkray didn't get me anywhere close - maybe for some people thats a good thing and its intentional to have a more focused range for the distortion circuits in mind.

In terms of the two darkglass modes... i was expecting the blue to be more of an overdrive pushing into distortion as you cranked the gain, then the red one to be more of a fuzz... thats not really what i got when playing with it. First, they sounded really close to each other, the blue mode being more agressive and distortion with a bit more high end, then the red was slightly more "wooly" for lack of any other word - but they weren't super distinct or different.. I think if i was in a mix, my band would never know which one is turned on without looking at the LED color. There is a blend knob in place of a mid control, and then a gain knob where the LED is, both of which do nothing in the standard (off) mode. When both of the knobs were cranked.. no complaints.. it sounded great and similar to what i would want dialed into my bass big muff and pedals. Here's the thing.. althought its there, i found the blend knob didn't sound great - im not sure if this is just the % sweep, just personal preferance but even rolling it off to like 70% which is usually as low as i like going with blend knobs on fuzzes didn't sound great to me. Same with the actual gain knob.. i was hoping to maybe get a range of tones by tweaking the two - going from a bit of grit on my tone up to full distorition/fuzz - wasn't really the case. Taking it from anything but full just made it sound weak / worse. Another thing to note is i almost wonder if it would have benefit from a stacked volume knob or something, the signal when you switch to the either darkglass circuts sounded signficantly louder and boosted to me, which is probbably whats making the blend knob sound off, but i could also see that being a bit of a nightmare live if you are switching it on and off mid song or even only need it on certain songs.

All this to say, its cool.. played great, but it quelled my GAS for one of these basses because despite it sounding great with everything full on - i would have concerns about how much juice that circuit is sucking from a preamp that has no passive switch if it dies along with the pre-amp. In fact.. the first time i went in to try it a few weeks ago, it was taken off the floor because they had to repair it becasue something was wrong with it and none of the modes including "off" seemed to work when there was an issue with darkglass stuff.. which was a fear when i first was getting interested in one new (especially when they had that Black limba BFR). My pedalboard is pretty simple, with the only super notable effects being fuzz/distortion for the songs that call for it - to me i figured the main advantage, similar to active basses, to having the onboard darkglass circuit, is live you have control to things at your fingertips instead of bending over mid-song or trying to screw with the knobs with your foot when something sounds too loud / tone knob is losing the low end ect.... but as stated - i felt like the gain and distortion knobs weren't helping me adjust those aspects in a positive way anyways. So what im left with is a cool LED with less control over controls like volume ect by just having a foot pedal. Also - realistically even if i managed to eliminate fuzz off my pedalboard.. i would still need a pedal tuner to mute / tune live anyways, and ideally a compressoin pedal - so it doesn't even really simplify that much from a rig perspective.


As stated - i tried this in a solo used music store setting which is fun, but the real test would have been a band setting. Im curious to hear from anyone that owns / owned one what thier experiences with them were. The things im most interested in hearing perspectives on is:

  • Do you feel like the circuit drains batteries more quickly in your exeprience, or a non-factor?
  • Have you had any eletronic complications?
  • How do you feel about the controls or sounds you can get out of it in all modes including the "distortion off" mode in a band setting?
  • Do you feel like the differences between the modes are significant enough tonally for you to find niches for them both- they both sounded good, but without a side by side i feel like especially in a mix the "2 types of distortion" would have been almost the same as just one was available with an "on" button lol.

 
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#2
I setup a friends dark ray before. It’s a weird bass. So many knobs that feel like they do nothing. I found the eq to be pretty useless and sounded best just flat. But even then, uninspiring.
 
#3
tremor100 said:
So i had an opportunity today to try a EBMM darkray in a used music store - which is a pretty rare find where i am.

Going to be honest, all it really did was re-enforce that i like my stingray special - and that aside from it being "neat" - it seemed kind of pointless. It felt and played amazingly (like a stingray special since its the same body/neck wise) and sounded great in all modes for the most part... but i found the controls for the two distortion circuits pretty much pointless. So keep in mind this was at a music store (and not through my own normal amp) but i felt like the 2 band EQ was different from the Stringray special EQ cut/boost frequency range - maybe i will be disproven on that and they are the same, but I feel like the range of tones i could get with it completely cut to completely cranked was much narrower in both directions.

On my stingray special, truthfully i don't really often touch the mid knob on my Stringray special so it didn't seem like that was missing, i keep it at the detent.. but normally i do the treble up like 5-10% boost, and bass up 10-15%, but when i need gritty tone or slap even just boosting the treble to 30% is more than enough, and if i roll the bass knob all the way up i can basically get a subwoofery tone when i need it for things like sublime or songs where the bass is just super deep - cranking the Bass and treble knob on the darkray didn't get me anywhere close - maybe for some people thats a good thing and its intentional to have a more focused range for the distortion circuits in mind.

In terms of the two darkglass modes... i was expecting the blue to be more of an overdrive pushing into distortion as you cranked the gain, then the red one to be more of a fuzz... thats not really what i got when playing with it. First, they sounded really close to each other, the blue mode being more agressive and distortion with a bit more high end, then the red was slightly more "wooly" for lack of any other word - but they weren't super distinct or different.. I think if i was in a mix, my band would never know which one is turned on without looking at the LED color. There is a blend knob in place of a mid control, and then a gain knob where the LED is, both of which do nothing in the standard (off) mode. When both of the knobs were cranked.. no complaints.. it sounded great and similar to what i would want dialed into my bass big muff and pedals. Here's the thing.. althought its there, i found the blend knob didn't sound great - im not sure if this is just the % sweep, just personal preferance but even rolling it off to like 70% which is usually as low as i like going with blend knobs on fuzzes didn't sound great to me. Same with the actual gain knob.. i was hoping to maybe get a range of tones by tweaking the two - going from a bit of grit on my tone up to full distorition/fuzz - wasn't really the case. Taking it from anything but full just made it sound weak / worse. Another thing to note is i almost wonder if it would have benefit from a stacked volume knob or something, the signal when you switch to the either darkglass circuts sounded signficantly louder and boosted to me, which is probbably whats making the blend knob sound off, but i could also see that being a bit of a nightmare live if you are switching it on and off mid song or even only need it on certain songs.

All this to say, its cool.. played great, but it quelled my GAS for one of these basses because despite it sounding great with everything full on - i would have concerns about how much juice that circuit is sucking from a preamp that has no passive switch if it dies along with the pre-amp. In fact.. the first time i went in to try it a few weeks ago, it was taken off the floor because they had to repair it becasue something was wrong with it and none of the modes including "off" seemed to work when there was an issue with darkglass stuff.. which was a fear when i first was getting interested in one new (especially when they had that Black limba BFR). My pedalboard is pretty simple, with the only super notable effects being fuzz/distortion for the songs that call for it - to me i figured the main advantage, similar to active basses, to having the onboard darkglass circuit, is live you have control to things at your fingertips instead of bending over mid-song or trying to screw with the knobs with your foot when something sounds too loud / tone knob is losing the low end ect.... but as stated - i felt like the gain and distortion knobs weren't helping me adjust those aspects in a positive way anyways. So what im left with is a cool LED with less control over controls like volume ect by just having a foot pedal. Also - realistically even if i managed to eliminate fuzz off my pedalboard.. i would still need a pedal tuner to mute / tune live anyways, and ideally a compressoin pedal - so it doesn't even really simplify that much from a rig perspective.


As stated - i tried this in a solo used music store setting which is fun, but the real test would have been a band setting. Im curious to hear from anyone that owns / owned one what thier experiences with them were. The things im most interested in hearing perspectives on is:

  • Do you feel like the circuit drains batteries more quickly in your exeprience, or a non-factor?
  • Have you had any eletronic complications?
  • How do you feel about the controls or sounds you can get out of it in all modes including the "distortion off" mode in a band setting?
  • Do you feel like the differences between the modes are significant enough tonally for you to find niches for them both- they both sounded good, but without a side by side i feel like especially in a mix the "2 types of distortion" would have been almost the same as just one was available with an "on" button lol.
Click to expand...
The midrange EQ is a critical must-have for me in tone shaping, and that alone makes the Darkray circuit the wrong choice for me. I do like a couple of the finishes, and if it were me, I'd buy an EBMM Darkray and just gut the tone control circuit and make it a three-band EQ Stringray. It is ABSOLUTELY NOT worth giving up the critical mid-range EQ for an overdrive feature I can put at my feet if I really want want overdrive.
 
#5
I had the sterling by music man darkray. The volume on this bass had the same increase like you mentioned. In clean mode it sounded fine. However to me it sounded like the bass was so deep that you couldn’t make out notes at time. Maybe compare it to sitting at the bottom of the ocean playing the bass. I own a USA Sub stingray with the 2 band eq and a Dingwall John Taylor signature with a 2 band eq and they don’t have that issue. I tried out the Ernie Ball darkray back in September and don’t remember it’s eq doing that while played in clean mode. Maybe its a sterling by music man thing. I’ve finally settled on the darkglass infinity combo amp
 
#7
There’s an independent music shop in town here that’s had a new Dark Ray on the wall for multiple years. I feel bad for them because it’s a sure money loser by the time they eventually sell it. It’s the most expensive bass they’ve ever had, and it’s clearly one no one wants.
 
#10
T McClure said:
There’s an independent music shop in town here that’s had a new Dark Ray on the wall for multiple years. I feel bad for them because it’s a sure money loser by the time they eventually sell it. It’s the most expensive bass they’ve ever had, and it’s clearly one no one wants.
Click to expand...
Even my "bigger" music store Long and McQuade carries EBMM and i got my special from there but they wont order them in to put on a rack:

1) probbably afraid a kid is going to break or gunk it up
2) Even bigger music stores you would have to have the right person come in looking to drop 4k on a bass lol... so its going to sit there forever

Sometimes it sucks because i had to basically buy mine going in almost blind - thank god it ended up being awesome.. but even then, i think i might have gotten an SLO neck if i was able to feel one in hand before ordering. I get it though, its too big of an investment, or rather liability to bother having this type of stuff on hand - let alone a smaller music store.
 
#13
tremor100 said:
Even my "bigger" music store Long and McQuade carries EBMM and i got my special from there but they wont order them in to put on a rack:

1) probbably afraid a kid is going to break or gunk it up
2) Even bigger music stores you would have to have the right person come in looking to drop 4k on a bass lol... so its going to sit there forever

Sometimes it sucks because i had to basically buy mine going in almost blind - thank god it ended up being awesome.. but even then, i think i might have gotten an SLO neck if i was able to feel one in hand before ordering. I get it though, it’s too big of an investment, or rather liability to bother having this type of stuff on hand - let alone a smaller music store.
Click to expand...
But this does not stop them from stocking $6-10k PRS guitars, or $8-16K CS Fenders, same for Gibsons. I think it is just what they prefer to do and what they push as the sales org. EBMM or other products seen as niche products by them, so they are not very interested.
That’s the reason I almost never buy anything from L&M these days. You come to even a bigger store and walk away bored/disintestred seeing same uninspiring inventory sitting there for ages covered in dust.

Edit: sorry about the L&M runt :)

I am one of the folks who does not understand why putting a distortion pedal inside a bass (or a guitar for that matter). A good preamp - sure, or make it passive. But the rest is better handles by amps and pedals, or modelers these days.
 
Last edited:
#14
Epiplatys said:
But this does not stop them from stocking $6-10k PRS guitars, or $8-16K CS Fenders, same for Gibsons. I think it is just what they prefer to do and what they push as the sales org. EBMM or other products seen as niche products by them, so they are not very interested.
That’s the reason I almost never buy anything from L&M these days. You come to even a bigger store and walk away bored/disintestred seeing same uninspiring inventory sitting there for ages covered in dust.

Edit: sorry about the L&M runt :)

I am one of the folks who does not understand why putting a distortion pedal inside a bass (or a guitar for that matter). A good preamp - sure, or make it passive. But the rest is better handles by amps and pedals, or modelers these days.
Click to expand...
Do they lol? Im in Ottawa and the few locations ive been to in the past few years dont stock anything custom shop or PRS outside of SEs for the mostpart - that said, i don't heavily browse the guitar section so perhaps im overlooking them. I have to imagine they get alot more guitar players dropping coin on the high end stuff over the basses though. Whether we like it or not - alot of bass players in local bands are guitar players who need to fill in on bass ect so just want something functional to fill the gig instead of fancy.
 
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#15
And now for a completely different opinion. To begin with I am a long time Stingray player. For over 20 years, my third (and only bass at the time) was a '79 Stingray. Fast forward about 30-odd years, and that bass just became too heavy for me to play (5 back surgeries since 2013). Through a few trades, I was able to parlay the '79 for a 2020 BFR Stingray Special fretless 5 string. I loved everything about it except the tone. Plus it only weighed 7.4 pounds, over two pounds lighter than the '79! What I expected (foolishly I suppose) was a 5 string version of my '79. I just didn't care for the sound of the neo pickup or the 3-band EQ.

I found out why. After I removed the pickup and preamp, I sent the preamp to a friend who did an RTA (real time analysis) on it and found the reasons I didn't like it - there was WAY too much interaction between the 3 bands to the point they were stealing gain from each other. If that was not bad enough, the treble sounded harsh and strident to me.

For years, I have been upgrading Sterling Ray4s and 5s with a pickup wound to late 70s specs, and a clone of the original late 70s preamp. So, I asked Nordstrand to make me a special pickup to fit (as the 2020 had no pickguard) and paired it with a late 70s preamp (I make and sell them as well, but that's not the point of this post). NOW, I had the sound I was hoping to have.

Now, to the DarkRay 5 string. First, the pairing of the neo pickup (no doubt the same one in the Stingray Special) with the Darkglass preamp creates a much different tone than the stock Special, and much better in my opinion. In this case, I was NOT looking for a duplicate of what I already had, so my expectations were that it would sound good, but different to the Special, and I got what I wanted.

What I wanted was a bass that sounded great, did not require any mods to sound great, and a bass that sounded different to the fretless Stingray I already owned. Most (probably 95% of the time) I will never use the distortion or fuzz, those to me are just an extra plus. It's a great bass with great tone, and I got the color I wanted, a weight I could handle (my rep at Sweetwater cherry-picked one and got me one that only weighed a bit over 8 pounds, also very light for a 5 string) and interest free financing with up to four years to pay off. To me, that was just too good to pass up.

I love the range of tones I can get using just the two-band EQ and see no reason to modify the bass in any way, other than to install a set of Straploks.

This is one fantastic bass. If you look at it as a tone monster with a great neo pickup/preamp combination with a couple of special effects thrown in, that's probably the best way to consider it. To each their own, that's for sure.
 
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#16
BQFS said:
And now for a completely different opinion. To begin with I am a long time Stingray player. For over 20 years, my third (and only bass at the time) was a '79 Stingray. Fast forward about 30-odd years, and that bass just became too heavy for me to play (5 back surgeries since 2013). Through a few trades, I was able to parlay the '79 for a 2020 BFR Stingray Special fretless 5 string. I loved everything about it except the tone. Plus it only weighed 7.4 pounds, over two pounds lighter than the '79! What I expected (foolishly I suppose) was a 5 string version of my '79. I just didn't care for the sound of the neo pickup or the 3-band EQ.

I found out why. After I removed the pickup and preamp, I sent the preamp to a friend who did an RTA (real time analysis) on it and found the reasons I didn't like it - there was WAY too much interaction between the 3 bands to the point they were stealing gain from each other. If that was not bad enough, the treble sounded harsh and strident to me.

For years, I have been upgrading Sterling Ray4s and 5s with a pickup wound to late 70s specs, and a clone of the original late 70s preamp. So, I asked Nordstrand to make me a special pickup to fit (as the 2020 had no pickguard) and paired it with a late 70s preamp (I make and sell them as well, but that's not the point of this post). NOW, I had the sound I was hoping to have.

Now, to the DarkRay 5 string. First, the pairing of the neo pickup (no doubt the same one in the Stingray Special) with the Darkglass preamp creates a much different tone than the stock Special, and much better in my opinion. In this case, I was NOT looking for a duplicate of what I already had, so my expectations were that it would sound good, but different to the Special, and I got what I wanted.

What I wanted was a bass that sounded great, did not require any mods to sound great, and a bass that sounded different to the fretless Stingray I already owned. Most (probably 95% of the time) I will never use the distortion or fuzz, those to me are just an extra plus. It's a great bass with great tone, and I got the color I wanted, a weight I could handle (my rep at Sweetwater cherry-picked one and got me one that only weighed a bit over 8 pounds, also very light for a 5 string) and interest free financing with up to four years to pay off. To me, that was just too good to pass up.

I love the range of tones I can get using just the two-band EQ and see no reason to modify the bass in any way, other than to install a set of Straploks.

This is one fantastic bass. If you look at it as a tone monster with a great neo pickup/preamp combination with a couple of special effects thrown in, that's probably the best way to consider it. To each their own, that's for sure.
Click to expand...
What color did you get ?
 

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