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Effects on DB?

Discussion in 'Miscellaneous [DB]' started by tplyons, Nov 11, 2003.


  1. tplyons

    tplyons

    Apr 6, 2003
    Madison, NJ
    So, the question is, if you have an upright with a pickup and amplify it, can you use effects and still sound alright? An upright with a wah would be pretty funky...:/
     
  2. Bruce Lindfield

    Bruce Lindfield Unprofessional TalkBass Contributor Gold Supporting Member

    Why? A DB is physically hard to play - it takes a lot of dedication and effort to project a good acoustic sound - it is very inconvenient to transport and get around.

    So - as soon as you start using effects, you might as well have been playing some kind fo BG or EUB which would have been much easier all round!

    As far as I can see - the only reason to go to all that trouble and effort with DB, is because you have to have that particular acoustic sound! So it makes no logical sense to then go and make it sound like a cheap pedal!!

    :confused:
     
  3. brianrost

    brianrost Gold Supporting Member

    Apr 26, 2000
    Boston, Taxachusetts
    I have tried effects a few times, but my old buddy feedback came knocking on the door :rolleyes:

    Compressors and distortion units crank up gain, wah pedals and envelope filters cause radical EQ boosts, etc. All of these increase the likelihood of feedback.

    My advice would be that if you want to use effects you consider using a magnetic pickup which will reduce potential for feedback.

    BTW, back in the early 70s I recall some jazz bassists messing with effects. Charlie Haden in particular recorded a few times with a wah pedal. I bet he doesn't have it any more :D
     
  4. Bruce Lindfield

    Bruce Lindfield Unprofessional TalkBass Contributor Gold Supporting Member

    Yes!! Actually I can see the point that you've spent many years studying and playing an instrument and then a trend comes round for electronic noise, so you go along with it for a bit!!

    Thankfully the 70s and 80s are over now and people seem to be back to good solid tone, rather than cheap and nasty effects!! ;)
     
  5. Bruce Lindfield

    Bruce Lindfield Unprofessional TalkBass Contributor Gold Supporting Member

    Even less chance of feedback with a solid bodied instrument and then why not reduce the scale length to make it easier to play - oh, somebody already did that, a long time ago!! :D
     
  6. lermgalieu

    lermgalieu Supporting Member

    Apr 27, 2000
    Palo Alto, CA
    When I want effects, I put down the DB, pick up the Musicman, and hit the good old blue tube distortion! For my money, effects sound better on a slab and like everyone is saying, far less grief with feedback and stuff.
     
  7. Johnny L

    Johnny L

    Feb 14, 2002
    Victoria, TX
    Sure, if you already sound alright acoustically. Blend the 2 sounds, even. I heard Al DiMeola do this on guitar in performance, moving his acoustic and distorted guitar sounds in the mix back and forth during an extended solo and it was very exciting to hear.
     
  8. You can do some really cool stuff with reverbs and delays. Probably not something you would hear on a 'normal' record, but if you were looking for something interesting to record or for a live performance, why not...
     
  9. Davehenning

    Davehenning

    Aug 9, 2001
    Los Angeles
    I have a recording of Stanley Clarke playing an upright solo with an envelope filter on it. It sounds kind of funky.

    ANyway, who cares if someone puts an effect on an upright? It is their choice. If they dig the sound, then so be it. Trying new ideas is the true spirit of jazz. So what that Haden tried out a wah pedal? Why not give it a shot rather than never try? At least he tried, he took a risk.... and that is one of the reasons why he is among the all-time best.

    I can see Mr. Lindfield's point, but taste is the enemy of art. Too much of it and creativity gets stifled.
     
  10. Bruce Lindfield

    Bruce Lindfield Unprofessional TalkBass Contributor Gold Supporting Member

    I think you have missed my point completely and just ranted on about your own prejudices. Virtually every great DB player has been characterised by huge amounts of taste and creativity!! :rolleyes:
     
  11. Davehenning

    Davehenning

    Aug 9, 2001
    Los Angeles
    Mr. Lindfield,

    Do your homework.

    You show a weakness for history/context of this music. When Charlie Haden came upon the scene in the late 50's in Ornette's band, he was considered avante-gard. Daring even. It sounds pretty tame by today's standards, but trust me, it was daring, just in the same way that experimenting with a wah was 30 years ago. Sure it has been done to death for 30 years, but Charlie was messing around with it at the begining of those 30 years when it was fresh.

    Charlie's "taste to play simple solid lines when necessary" was severly questioned in the late 50's early 60's.

    That is why charlie is great. He tries new things. Whether or not you, me or the stupid bastard critics think those new things are appropriate.

    As to why bother? That is the WHOLE point. That is ART. People used to put Monk down. Same with Bird. Hell, Mingus quit playing to work in the post office. You know why? People told them that what they were playing was "inappropriate."
    They were told what is not tasteful, appropriate and some were told to quit while they were ahead.


    I am starting to think you are parroting some critic's or author's definition of taste in jazz.

    I love Holland's playing. But I won't think less of him if he wants to try things out. That is how you come up with new ideas, whether your are trying a new time-sig or me messing around with effects.

    I resent "resorting to effects." That statement is teeming with bias and condecension.

    That attitude immediately puts you in a small-minded box. Is that a segregation of electronic and acoustic music that I detect?

    But then again, it is just your opinion.

    all the best
     
  12. Bruce Lindfield

    Bruce Lindfield Unprofessional TalkBass Contributor Gold Supporting Member

    Yet again you are missing my point big-time - probably because you are putting your efforts into putting me down and not into following the discussion!

    So I am not saying why bother to do something different or experiment, but why bother to use DB rather than BG - if you are determined to use effects?

    The point is that effects like wah wah are old hat now and hardly new and daring - they are now just a safe way to hide the fact that you have no real musical ideas!!
     
  13. Bruce Lindfield

    Bruce Lindfield Unprofessional TalkBass Contributor Gold Supporting Member

    But he plays a DB with gut strings acoustically - he hasn't used effects for over 20 years - he is a great example of somone who is concerned with music and writing great tunes - we are talking now - not 30 year ago and the debate is about now.

    I know Haden's history very well and have many CDs - but we are talking in this year - what has history got to do with it?

    The most recent album of his that I bought, was "Nocturne" and it is a great celebration of subtle acoustic music influenced by Cuban songs, Charlie contributes two beautiful tunes that are quiet and wonderful - this is true creativity - worlds away from just stomping on an effects pedal!!
     
  14. Davehenning

    Davehenning

    Aug 9, 2001
    Los Angeles
    Why bother is your opinion. My point is that if someone wants me take that route,why should you care? If they like the sound, then so be it.
    If I want to put delay on my DB or my BG, then cool. At least give it a shot. Something cool might happen. I personally don't like to put effects on my DB, but I will never question someone else's wanting to do so.

    To say that effects are a convient way to mask a lack of ideas can be true in some cases. The effect(regardless of what it is)is not what makes daring, it is the player who plays the effect that makes daring.



    If you are gonna come out swinging, expect to be swung back at.....no personal disrespect meant.
     
  15. Mr. Limp-in-the-Field,

    Here's a radical idea: The effects user might want to go arco with her/his electronic distortion. Try that with an electric bass. Caution: This suggestion is coming from someone who put a new crack in the music room wall every time he put an effects box on the big bass.
     
  16. Bruce Lindfield

    Bruce Lindfield Unprofessional TalkBass Contributor Gold Supporting Member

    Why - do you lack the courage of your convictions? Why not state your personal preference - this is what this board is all about!

    If we just say - fine do what you like!! How does that help anybody? People want opinions - they want to know what others think - otherwise why come here and mention it at all?

    I think it would be very disappointing if you came along to a board and everybody just said - do what you want - I don't care....:meh:

    I would be thinking - what a load of bland wimps!! Afraid to say what they really think!! ;)
     
  17. Bruce Lindfield

    Bruce Lindfield Unprofessional TalkBass Contributor Gold Supporting Member

    Obviously never heard of an eBow!! :meh:

    As was said to me - do your homework!! ;)
     
  18. olivier

    olivier

    Dec 17, 1999
    Paris, France
    Dave: it's funny that all the Jazz greats that you mention are remembered for their contribution to music, as daring composers or interpreters. Of course they were good technicians of their instruments and prolly open to technical novelties (like Sun Ra with respect to the synthesizers, or Miles re fuzion), but what matter in the end is who composed/played that music.

    Bruce opinion is why bother with DB and effects when you could get the same on BG.

    My Opinion: Don't let all that gear stuff get in your way, the music that's in your head has to come out through your hands. The bow is cool too, really interesting stuff...

    But you can do whatever you like.
     
  19. Bruce Lindfield

    Bruce Lindfield Unprofessional TalkBass Contributor Gold Supporting Member

    I agree with that 100% and is all you need to say really in reply to the original question!!

    I wish I could have been so concise !! ;)