Electronic Drums for Cover Band

[Bullitt5135]

A question for rock cover bands using electronic drums... does your drummer choose one "kit" and pretty much leave it alone, or do they cycle through a number of kits during your show? If your drummer is using multiple kits, how do you keep a consistent FOH mix?

My drummer has a Roland V-Drum kit. He insists on using 5-7 different kits for each show in order to approximate the drum sound from the original recordings (rock kit, ballad kit, funk kit, reggae kit, garage kit, etc). Inevitably, the volume and mix of each kit ends up all over the place. It's nearly impossible to maintain a good FOH mix (lead singer mixes on-the-fly on stage). Dialing in each kit in rehearsal is a waste of time, because the guy can't go 10 seconds without tweaking something on the drum brain mixer. To make matters worse, he's essentially deaf in hi-freq -- so he quickly gets WAY out of control with cymbal volume.

 

[s0c9]

Dialing in each kit in rehearsal is a waste of time, because the guy can't go 10 seconds without tweaking something on the drum brain mixer. To make matters worse, he's essentially deaf in hi-freq -- so he quickly gets WAY out of control with cymbal volume.

There's your problem.
Mix the levels for FOH, then send the drummer his monitor feed and boost the HF ???
Option 2: ?? Get another drummer!!

 

[Bullitt5135]

Mix the levels for FOH, then send the drummer his monitor feed and boost the HF

Yeah we're working on that, but our current monitor set-up isn't set-up for that yet (don't ask). That's obviously the best solution in the long run -- which will involve teaching a very old dog new tricks. Trusting the drummer with a tablet and control of his monitor mix is akin to trusting a 16-yr old with a Ferrari.

Option #2 has crossed my mind. Do you think he'll still let us use is awesome basement for band practice?

 

[s0c9]

If you go with option #2.. My guess would .. not until h*ll freezes over
Sometimes, one has to be honest with band mates and lay it on the line... but tactfully.
Especially, if you need their rehearsal space !!

 

[EastCoastThump]

Players have to be as musical with their gear as with their primary instruments. Individual patches aren't giggable until the musician can use them *without* screwing up the band's overall mix—either in tone or volume. Like keyboardists and guitarists with option-rich rigs or pedalboards, e-drummers need to comb through to match the volumes of their patches to how they're used in your sets. That's not a fancy extra; it's a minimal threshold for taking the gig.

[Edit for explicitness] So, yes: the drummer should be free to use how ever many kits he has dialed in to work within the band's mix and monitoring needs. If that number is one, so be it.

The first time an e-drummer (or keys player or FX using guitarist, etc) hits a switch that screws up the band's sound? That should be when the band or BL has The Talk or otherwise puts a foot down. It sounds as though this drummer has been indulged while he clumsily plays with his toys on stage; I hope the OP doesn't find that his drummer now views this established habit as his authorized and inalienable right.

 

[redneck2wild]

Does his sound module have direct outs for individual drums?
The TD-50 and TD-30 sound modules have 8 direct out channels - Kick, Snare, Hi-Hat, Ride, Left Toms, Right Toms, Left Crash, Right Crash.

If his sound module has direct outs, a Behringer X-Air 12 can be used as a Drum sub mixer to stabilize individual drum sounds. Each direct out goes into a different channel with specific settings for Level, EQ, Compression and Gating.

 

[Wadge]

My drummer has a TD30. He used to change kits from a jazz type kit for the swing numbers to a rock kit for the rock numbers and would sometimes change the kick drum for the dance numbers.

Very quickly, he (and we) became unimpressed with the Roland sounds and switched to triggering sounds using superior drummer. It was an improvement but eventually he got tired and went back to using an acoustic kit. I had high hopes for us using an electric kit but neither the drummer nor the rest of the band were very happy with it.

 

[Bullitt5135]

Does his sound module have direct outs for individual drums?

Yes, his module has direct outs, which we use - it's an older model. From what I've been told, the direct outs are "post, not pre" -- so every time he reaches for his sliders on the module, it negatively affects the FOH and MON mix. Since he changes kits EVERY song, it just gets impossible to adjust my monitor mix every song. Some songs are blasting, and others are hard to hear. I cringe to think what it sounds like out front.

Part of the problem is our monitor setup. With our X32, I'm using an iPad with sends on fader so I can adjust my own mix. I have all the control I want. Everybody else is using a different system... thinking "less is more," the owner of the X32 set it up so each musician (lead gtr, rhythm gtr, bass and drums) has their own sub mix which gets fed to each person's simple 4-channel IEM mixer/amp. It's basically a "more-me" setup. He's afraid that giving everyone control over all 16+ channels would be a nightmare (they're a bunch of non-tech savvy people). The obvious step would be to make the jump to using tablets and individual monitor mixes for everyone. That means additional gear and a learning curve.

Back to my original question... is it unreasonable for me to ask him to simplify things to 2-3 kits TOPS? He doesn't seem to notice or care that I have a set-it-and-forget-it bass tone. I prefer to make subtle changes to my tone using right hand technique and rolling off the tone know slightly. Does the audience really notice or care if he's using the same kit for Beatles AND Metallica songs?

 

[s0c9]

Sounds like you need to take the control of his sliders away.. meaning.. not require them to be adjusted. Ever!! (or at least seldom)
It's not that complicated..

If he has either the TD30 or TD50 you can take Direct Outs put EACH into an X32 input channel. Kick, snare, etc. You can start with channel EQ's flat and all other effects off.
Set the levels on each kit.. you can do that using the VU (level) meters on the console, and SAVE those settings.
Let him use what you do to monitor, and give him his own stereo bus (you can re-purpose AUX sends if you don't have enough output busses available) and use the sends-on-fader with the QMIX app to give him his mix.
He should not ever need to adjust those faders again.. and if he does, he'll INSTANTLY hear the same mix you do!!
Or.. he can used his same "more me" mix, and set his level. Either way, he should NOT need to mess with the TD faders, just his monitor volume.
This make sense?

 

[musicman7722]

I have my first gig this weekend in years with EDrums. Again as above he uses either 30 or 50 head I forget. We are trying to get away with 4 channels for now. We all use IEM via Mackie DL1608. I gave him a stereo mix. I am the BL and warm going to tell him not to change kits on the first gig and to only touch his sliders on my request.

 

[buldog5151bass]

The same response to guitarists and bassists and use multiple instruments to get the "right" sound for each song. You are better off getting a PA mix that works, rather than chasing different mixes. 99.5% of the time, the audience can neither hear the difference, nor do they care. An inconsistent mix is MUCH worse.

My main gig is playing modern and classic rock covers. One bass.

 

[goneflyin]

My drummer uses e-drums, and has spent quite a bit of time eq-ing and setting levels on all his 'kits'. The end result is a pretty consistent level FOH and we're pretty happy with it.

 

[musicman7722]

Gig went well. He stayed with once kit and never touched the fades on the T30. We decided after the gig to go to 5 channels and separate his cymbals from hi hat. God did my bass sound good with his kick wow

 

[mrufino1]

Having the right sounds for every song has the potential to make a band sound awesome.

Having one great sound versus having a toybox of incorrectly mixed, never settled multiple sounds...so what does the drummer do for his day job (since he clearly advertises that he's a weekend warrior)?

Giving musicians individual control over non iem mixes is the recipe for disaster and feedback.

Having a digital mixer that can do great things but leaving out other essential things to make that happen has the guarantee to make a band sound awful.

Pay for a rehearsal room with your new drummer while that drummer plays with his sounds in the basement forever..

 

[Ulf_Hansson]

Gig went well. He stayed with once kit and never touched the fades on the T30. We decided after the gig to go to 5 channels and separate his cymbals from hi hat. God did my bass sound good with his kick wow

Good to hear that it all went well!

I like playing together with an acoustic drummer much better than with e-drums, but some productions require going all digital and IEM (only vocals on stage for musical stuff etc). In those cases the ability to adjust the drum sounds to different styles is definitely a plus, and a decent drummer should be able to handle this. Dynamics and balancing levels are important aspects of their instrument, after all.

 

[DWBass]

My drummer just bought an electronic kit. I'm nervous about it. Not a fan of them. Always volume issues and always have to have PA support including subs,

 

[sm49341]

I credit a lot of my bands success to using edrums. They always have the "just right" volume, therefore we have a better mix at any volume. My drummer uses maybe a couple kits. We do tweak just a touch for each room. He uses real cymbols and hi-hat. We mic those.
I still remember the first rehearsal when we started using e-drums. We were about 4 months into rebuilding a band from 15 years ago, for a wedding. We had 6 months to build. I was generally disappointed in our sound at this point. The drummers drums were a good brand but pretty old and worn out. And he plays heavy. Guitarist purchased a set of edrums for the drummer. We played one song with a standard preset kit, probably kit 001. We all looked at each other in silence. Our sound had just went from garage band jokers to "wow".

 

[DWBass]

My drummer just bought an electronic kit. I'm nervous about it. Not a fan of them. Always volume issues and always have to have PA support including subs,

Well that was short lived. Drummer found issues and anomalies with the kit. Mainly, hitting toms causes cymbals to sound. Hitting the snare causes the cymbals to sound. I'm kinda pissed because he paid good money for this kit but won't spend money on getting a good drum mic set.

 

[bwildt]

The false triggering of adjacent drums can generally be tuned out of the set by spending a little time adjusting the sensitivity of the triggering. See the manual on the procedure. Just like any other drums, the factory setup for things like trigger thresholds, velocity response and crosstalk needs to be adjusted to match the drummers technique and style.

 

[DWBass]

The false triggering of adjacent drums can generally be tuned out of the set by spending a little time adjusting the sensitivity of the triggering. See the manual on the procedure. Just like any other drums, the factory setup for things like trigger thresholds, velocity response and crosstalk needs to be adjusted to match the drummers technique and style.

I'm hoping he sells the dang thing. Not liking it anyway.