Em7 scale?

[Chris Fitzgerald]

Really?

Its just E major, with a minor 7.

So E F# G# A B C# D E

.......

Why are we having so much trouble with a simple Em7 scale?

Excellent question.

 

[Jeb]

Em7? Thats it? 4 pages?

I have nothing to offer but... thanks? Nice job TB!

 

[TMacATK]

On the other hand Em7 looks like E major with a minor 7 which would be a dominant. Anyone that understands roman numerals for chords will see the upper case E as representing a major triad.

I think debate over chord chart notation has moved somewhat beyond the original question. Seeing as how the inquiry was what scale should go with an E minor 7 chord, I doubt the Greek mode or notation makes much difference.

I would always advise understanding the chord in the context of the key. If you have an Em7 with a G, D, and C somewhere mixed in, you're in the key of G and you should play natural minor...it's just a matter of knowing plain old practical musical theory. Circle of fifths stuff should come first.

 

[TMacATK]

Oh woops...four pages of replies slipped past me there.

I guess discussion on modes and theory crap appeals to bass players because we're the only one in the band, heck even around, who knows everything about it. Clearly. haha.

 

[mutedeity]

Sure, if you like getting worked up about nothing.

I tell my troops all the time: you can complain about what "should" be, or you can deal with what "is".

This is one of those times.

I don't know I think I made a pretty good case for what is, when you were arguing the opposite. It's not about what I think should be at any rate, it's about the fact that I think Em7 is a poor way to write that chord, I am pretty sure I'm not the only one.

 

[mutedeity]

I think debate over chord chart notation has moved somewhat beyond the original question. Seeing as how the inquiry was what scale should go with an E minor 7 chord, I doubt the Greek mode or notation makes much difference.

I would always advise understanding the chord in the context of the key. If you have an Em7 with a G, D, and C somewhere mixed in, you're in the key of G and you should play natural minor...it's just a matter of knowing plain old practical musical theory. Circle of fifths stuff should come first.

Well, to be honest, it was never meant to be a debate about what the best way to write a chord is. I was just giving my opinion that I think that's a poor way to write the chord. I went on to make an analytical argument where I was trying to cover as many considerations as possible about how and why chord symbols are written.

 

[mutedeity]

An online theory primer. What is this supposed to prove? That one easy way to teach novice students what seventh chords are is by detailing what kind of triad it is and what kind of seventh is added? So stipulated. But as far as this discussion, that point is made completely irrelevant by the fact that chord symbols are shorthand shortcuts meant to be easily read on the fly. Suppose they were driving instructions that you had to read to get where you were going. Would you rather read, "rotate the steering apparatus sharply in a clockwise motion", or "turn right"? Once people know how to turn the wheel, all they need to know is where and when to do it.

I think if you look at the context of the debate, Pacman was making the case that the term "minor" refers to the function of the third. My case was that, as you said yourself, chord symbols are shorthand. Shorthand for what though? Shorthand for naming the function of the triad followed by the function of the 7th. Great, in the end it all gets read as emin7, or E-7 or Emi7 etc, but I believe that understanding why we make various assumptions about things that allows us to write things in shorthand, is key to actually understanding the things we see rather than just memorising things because we are told to.

 

[zeppelinfreak]

.......




Excellent question.

Sarcasm?

I was always told that the m7 scale is the same as the Mixolydian scale? Major with a minor 7

 

[TMacATK]

Well, to be honest, it was never meant to be a debate about what the best way to write a chord is. I was just giving my opinion that I think that's a poor way to write the chord. I went on to make an analytical argument where I was trying to cover as many considerations as possible about how and why chord symbols are written.

Haha it's all good man. It's just funny where discussions end up, right?

I guess I've been reading/writing chord sheets for a long time. As long as everybody understands.

 

[TMacATK]

Sarcasm?

I was always told that the m7 scale is the same as the Mixolydian scale? Major with a minor 7

Well a minor 7 chord has a root note, a third, a fifth, an octave, and a 7th, right? There are a couple scales that could fit in there. Mixolydian would be funky because based on an E, it has a G# and a E minor 7 has a G. Good harmony for some places...jazz anyone? haha but not for a straight up minor chord.

I always try to understand the chord in the context of the key. If it's something that's in the key of G, like G D Em7 C, I'll play a straight up minor scale. If it's something in a different key, that's where the different modes would come in. Like "Breathe" is a big jam on Em7 and A (dominant) 7. That's where I'd throw in a C#. No flat 6 because you're playing in a different key, D.

 

[zeppelinfreak]

Well a minor 7 chord has a root note, a third, a fifth, an octave, and a 7th, right? There are a couple scales that could fit in there. Mixolydian would be funky because based on an E, it has a G# and a E minor 7 has a G. Good harmony for some places...jazz anyone? haha but not for a straight up minor chord.

I always try to understand the chord in the context of the key. If it's something that's in the key of G, like G D Em7 C, I'll play a straight up minor scale. If it's something in a different key, that's where the different modes would come in. Like "Breathe" is a big jam on Em7 and A (dominant) 7. That's where I'd throw in a C#. No flat 6 because you're playing in a different key, D.

Well now Im really confused. So are we playing a straight up minor chord? Then whats the point of sayin m7? Isnt it assumed that the 7 is minor? Unless its harmonic minor?

 

[TMacATK]

Well the scale depends on the key is all I mean.

One chord is not enough information. That's all I should have said.

The seven is by itself I think. It's Em add 7 = Em7, so the chord and not the interval is minor.

 

[zeppelinfreak]

Well the scale depends on the key is all I mean.

One chord is not enough information. That's all I should have said.

The seven is by itself I think. It's Em add 7 = Em7, so the chord and not the interval is minor.

I guess what Im trying to say is isnt it just extra work to say Em7 scale? Isnt it like saying Em b3? Which I heard someone say before btw. But cant you just say Em scale and be saying the same thing?

 

[BassyBill]

This discussion has gone on a lot longer than I thought it would.

As far as the chord notation goes, I've always been happy with...

EG#BD = E7
EG#BD# = Emaj7
EGBD = Em7 or Emin7

Works for me.

As for the "Em7 scale" - well, I presume the OP meant "what scale contains notes that might work well during the section of a sequence where someone has indicated that the chord is Em7?" Or something like that. And the answer, as several people have said, is "That depends on the context and personal preferences". But you could try playing around with pentatonic minor or with Aeolian, Dorian and Phrygian modes just to get some ideas.

I also like the answer that DocBop gave in another current thread - you only need to learn one scale, and that's chromatic. Then you just need to learn which notes to leave out when. That's actually pretty good advice.