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Envelope Filter Advice

#21
The single biggest differentiator between my liking the sound I get from an envelope filter and not liking it, to me, seems to be the signal I give it. Which is probably why Garcia built an on-board effects loop for his MuTron use.

And it's not always that they like the hottest signal possible. It's more that there is a point on my volume knob that is just right. More can create too much rumble, quack, whatever. Too little and the filter doesn't engage. I even find that on a jazz bass there can be a subtle mix of both pickups that gets that perfect sound.

This is definitely the case with my Moog and 2 Mutrons and every other one I have tried.

The one I am the most curious about is the Source Audio manta. If I wasn't gassing for so much stuff already it would be top of my list.
 
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#22
Mosfed said:
The single biggest differentiator between my liking the sound I get from an envelope filter and not liking it, to me, seems to be the signal I give it. Which is probably why Garcia built an on-board effects loop for his MuTron use.

And it's not always that they like the hottest signal possible. It's more that there is a point on my volume knob that is just right. More can create too much rumble, quack, whatever. Too little and the filter doesn't engage. I even find that on a jazz bass there can be a subtle mix of both pickups that gets that perfect sound.

This is definitely the case with my Moog and 2 Mutrons and every other one I have tried.t.
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This is an interesting observation. I've been experimenting with a Barber Linden preamp either in front of pedals to hit them with more or less gain or after them to adjust tone and/or post effect gain structure. I'd kinda overlooked messing around with the envelope filters though.
 
#24
Jeff Bonny said:
This is an interesting observation. I've been experimenting with a Barber Linden preamp either in front of pedals to hit them with more or less gain or after them to adjust tone and/or post effect gain structure. I'd kinda overlooked messing around with the envelope filters though.
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It's definitely worth doing. For me it is the difference between an absolute mess and an envelope filter sound that gets people dancing.
 
#25
If you want to go real cheap there's a few DOD filters that come up under 50 beans. And if you look you can get a 105Q for about the same.

But the Mutron is the real deal. If you want that fat sound spend a bit of coin. The RI seem to be a lot cheaper than the 18 v originals.
 
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#26
BawanaRik said:
If you want to go real cheap there's a few DOD filters that come up under 50 beans. And if you look you can get a 105Q for about the same.

But the Mutron is the real deal. If you want that fat sound spend a bit of coin. The RI seem to be a lot cheaper than the 18 v originals.
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I haven't heard it in person but the new Keeley neutrino cops the sound really well as well. They have a video on the Keeley page that compares the two of them (TruTron IIIx and the Neutrino) and I was blown away.

Invalid Link Removed
 
#29
I wanted something cheap and easy, like me, for some of the once and a while songs. I ended up with a Mooer Bass Sweeper. I very quickly dialled in just what I needed for a theatre show a couple of weeks ago. I have to sit down with it and really find some more sweet spots.
 
#30
how am I not reading "PROTON PROTON PROTON" over and over again?
cmon guys think of the goal here- we don't need your favorite synthy bag of tricks mega filter- to me, 'needing a filter for a couple songs' equals classic funky filter. add in low price point and you have proton- the best one-trick-pony in the pedal game.
 
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#31
eddododo said:
how am I not reading "PROTON PROTON PROTON" over and over again?
cmon guys think of the goal here- we don't need your favorite synthy bag of tricks mega filter- to me, 'needing a filter for a couple songs' equals classic funky filter. add in low price point and you have proton- the best one-trick-pony in the pedal game.
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I agree! I've had a Haz Mu-tron, a vintage Mu-Tron III and a Proton. While I would love to try the Tru-Tron, the Proton with it's conventional 9v DC, 2.1mm center negative, and small footprint is convincing me otherwise.
 
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#32
eddododo said:
how am I not reading "PROTON PROTON PROTON" over and over again?
cmon guys think of the goal here- we don't need your favorite synthy bag of tricks mega filter- to me, 'needing a filter for a couple songs' equals classic funky filter. add in low price point and you have proton- the best one-trick-pony in the pedal game.
Click to expand...

+1 for the proton. I have never been much of an FX guy, but love the proton. It would be my "if I only had one pedal" pedal. Played a three hour show this weekend and used it on 3, maybe 4 songs. Nice and subtle and very natural sounding. Great touch response. Sounds like my bass through an envelope, not my bass through space lasers!

I'm actually thinking about buying a 2nd one, which is why I'm on this thread. My proton is on my "board" (which is three pedals and a tuner). Since I don't use my board all the time, I would like to have a grab-and-go filter. I've tried a few, and will probably go with another proton, but I'm really interested in the Keeley Neutrino. I guess I'm just a Mutron guy as far as filters go.

Filters I've tried...

Dunlop MXR M82 - lots of quack, and pretty spacy sounding. Didn't find that low and slow natural sound with this one. Small, cheap, and runs off a battery. There are about 50 of them for sale in the classifieds right now.

DOD FX25 (the green sparkle one) - I've read the "avocado" green is the way to go, but lot's more expensive. And the FX25b gets pretty bad reviews. Got this one for real cheap, and don't really like it. Massive low end. Funky resonant peaks. Tough to get the filter to respond - kind of all or nothing. Not for me.

EHX Micro Qtron - Cool filter, and if I had to pick one besides the proton, this would be it. Pretty cheap. Runs off a battery. There is a sweet spot you have to find with this one, and if you are off that sweet spot, then it can produce some pretty nasty resonant peaks. Once it's dialed in, it sounds good. Cool sounding, but not as natural as the Proton. Little bit of space sounds, but not bad.

Did in store demos of...

Baseballs - kind of cool, but in a bit of a different category. Small and cheap. More on the specialty effect side of things. Like if you were in a Chili Peppers cover band and needed it for 2 songs.

Aguilar Filter twin - very nice filter, but kind of Aguilar's own thing. It has up and down filters, and a blend for the two. Cool sounds and a nice pedal, but different than what I am looking for.

Malekko E Filtr - for dudes who need to save space on the board! It's tiny. Pretty cool, with nice classic sounds. Simple to dial in. Maybe a little more thin sounding than the Qtron or Proton.
 
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#37
hennessybass said:
+1 for the proton. ... Sounds like my bass through an envelope, not my bass through space lasers!
...
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Sometimes you need space lasers!

I'm on this kick of MFX, especially if the effect is only needed for a couple of songs. Seems to be a very cost-effective way to get a few different barely/rarely-used sounds. So if anybody can speak of the envelope filters available in the Zoom B3 or MS-60B, or the Line 6 M-series, or other etc... please comment.
 
#38
I got a MXR BEF.

For me it´s the better choice for this budget. I´d say you if you got the chance to get one used go for it. From my experience I find that it cut thought the mix allright. You can dial it for going subtle too with the Dry and FX knobs. I´ve never been burried in live with the BEF and it doesn´t have some big spikes like another envelopes filters, like the EHX Micro Q-Tron for instance.

It works in Band Pass. It´s my fave when I´m slapping or soloing. I can get some fat and nice tones when I´m fingering, but not so fat like a Low Pass filter.

It rocks!
 
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#39
Feral Feline said:
Sometimes you need space lasers!
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HA HA! This is true. Sometimes you do need space lasers. I leave a lot of that to the guit players (phaser, chorus, delay, space echo, wah, etc). My big band has two guitar players, so space gets filled up pretty fast.

Like I said, I'm not much of an FX guy, so the Proton is a nice subtle effect for me. I mostly use it on slower, dark songs - not really on the fast funky stuff. I try to play with a light touch, so I retain low end and just get a little swell (or some of the vowel sounds) in my notes. Then when the dynamic of the songs changes, like moving to a chorus, I can hit it a little harder and trigger some sweet wah sounds.

If I wanted more of a 70's party funk vibe, I might go with the Qtron or the MXR. MXR seems to have less volume/frequency spikes than some of the others. +1 that the MXR is very easy to dial in.
 
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