Envelope filters and active electronics

[baTassi]

Have you tried a compressor/limiter before the envelope? This would even out the signal and prevent sudden peaks.

I am a newbie so take my input with the correct amount of weight. I only have active basses and have gone with many of the suggestions here to combat the issues you are dealing with. I have my compressor and an EQ pedal before my MF 101. I have the EQ Pedal set to control the signal going into the MF101 only. By doing this I do not have to make any EQ changes to my basses when I engage the MF101.... great threat and lots of great suggestions.

I've tried with a compressor, but not as much as I should probably. To be honest I use the compressor almost exclusevely for slap and I don't want to mess with the settings. An EQ pedal on the other hand... that might be the way to go, although I would prefer not to buy another pedal and (more improtanly) not to add another pedal to the chain. I will do it if I have to, but I'm sure I can tune up the pre-amp to get what I need

There is no reason an envelope filter cannot work as intended with an active bass. My 3Leaf Wonderlove sounds awesome with my basses, all of which are active. That is what the sensitivity adjustment is for. Also, I have it at the front of my board right after my octaver. Also, pickup selection and EQ is important. As @Lonnybass pointed out above, EFs like mids.

The problem is not the srings or the pups high, the bass it's fine, it's only with the filter. My guess was (and eveybody seems to aim in that direction) it's something about the frecuencies the pre-amp is feeding the pedal

 

[DavidG]

Try this. It is from the instructions of another Envelope Filter, not the Moog but should still apply.

"Set for Active Bass:
Turn down the sweep control - the filter is probably "open" all the time because your instrument puts out a very hot signal. If you play an active bass you'll generally need to turn the sweep control much lower to get good results."

I'm not sure but I think the "Envelope Amount" control on the Moog is the same as "sweep."
Envelope filters sometimes need to be set just right for best results, especially on active basses.

 

[baTassi]

Try this. It is from the instructions of another Envelope Filter, not the Moog but should still apply.

"Set for Active Bass:
Turn down the sweep control - the filter is probably "open" all the time because your instrument puts out a very hot signal. If you play an active bass you'll generally need to turn the sweep control much lower to get good results."

I'm not sure but I think the "Envelope Amount" control on the Moog is the same as "sweep."
Envelope filters sometimes need to be set just right for best results, especially on active basses.

Thanks, I'll try that as well, I think I have the Amount all the way up (don't remember really), so that could be something

 

[fishstix]

This isn't the an answer you want probably but... With an envelope filter like the Wonderlove V2 it has an effects loop built in which allows the pedal to be in the front of your chain to sense the pure bass input dynamics but then run the actual filter after others in the chain that may have diminished the dynamics (fuzz, octave, etc). You could also use this loop to run a preamp like the Sadowsky outboard and hit the input of the envelope with a flat unboosted signal with more midrange. Then, after the pedal senses the input dynamic, you can shape the tone with the outboard preamp. Just a thought.
FWIW, I've done this exact thing with my passive J and P as well as my L2500 and Sterling that are too hot for my filters to work appropriately.

 

[Steadfast]

I found on my Bongo that boosting the mids solves the problem.

 

[baTassi]

I found on my Bongo that boosting the mids solves the problem.

I definetely need to sit down and play with the bass EQ to get there. I could bring the pedal home and make some test with he StingRay, but even when it has an active pre-amp as well, they are pretty different beasts so, idk. But with the StingrRay I can directly play with the mids and see if the problem is on that area

This isn't the an answer you want probably but... With an envelope filter like the Wonderlove V2 it has an effects loop built in which allows the pedal to be in the front of your chain to sense the pure bass input dynamics but then run the actual filter after others in the chain that may have diminished the dynamics (fuzz, octave, etc). You could also use this loop to run a preamp like the Sadowsky outboard and hit the input of the envelope with a flat unboosted signal with more midrange. Then, after the pedal senses the input dynamic, you can shape the tone with the outboard preamp. Just a thought.
FWIW, I've done this exact thing with my passive J and P as well as my L2500 and Sterling that are too hot for my filters to work appropriately.

Yeah, money aside, even if it works (because it makes sense), I rather use my PJ on the songs I plan to use the filter instead of using externaly the pre-amp my bass has already instaled. But is a good idea to have them all working the same

 

[Funkinthetrunk]

Envelope filters are instruments in itself. You need to feel it out because different basses react differently. For me, the threshold of the filter is mostly in the way / how I play. I often have to play certain string or even notes harder or softer, I just feel it out.

Or, you can get Source Audio envelope filters as they have a automatic threshold function. They automatically adjusts to your playing. The Source Audio BEF Pro is one of my all time favorite.

 

[aprod]

My chain is MM Jazz Bass (active bass) into POG > MXR EF than my compressor. It tames the peaks very well.

 

[baTassi]

Envelope filters are instruments in itself. You need to feel it out because different basses react differently. For me, the threshold of the filter is mostly in the way / how I play. I often have to play certain string or even notes harder or softer, I just feel it out.

Yes, definitely and that can be part of the charm as well, to have those dinamycs may be hard to get use to, but it also gives you more posibilities. The problem here is how extremely different the behavior is with the 2 basses. The Fender is full into it no matter the tone or pickup configuration. The other is like it doesn't want to go there.
But, again, I knew that most probably the problem was on my side, now I have to take some time and start to tacle each one of the possible sources one by one. People had some great ideas here so, I have something to work with