Epi EB-3 Mudbucker Tweak

["Q"]

For the past couple days I've been trying to find ways to slightly demagnetize the magnets in the neck pickup on my EB-3 and as it turns out ceramic magnets(which they seem to be) are really hard to demagnetize. So I took the one closest to the neck out with the idea of putting it on the electric stove for a bit.

But, just on a whim I decided to try it just with the one magnet. Wow! What a difference! It sounds way cleaner and more natural. I can even hear a big difference in the bridge pickup sound from the decrease in string pull.

I expected a big hit in the treble frequencies but didn't see it really possibly cause im getting most of the output from the coil nearer the bridge. Overall, it sounds much more relaxed and natural sounding almost resembling a P pickup. Its output more closely matches the bridge P/U now too which is nice.

Oh and somewhere here on TB someone said the mudbuckers in the Epis aren't made like the old Gibson ones. That appears to not true as I bought mine last year and its constructed bar magnet/sideinder coil/polepieces/coil/magnet.

Anyway an easy tweak and it sounds way more vintage aswell. Why Epi put such strong magnets in the neck postion I'll never know.

 

[SGD Lutherie]

Removing the magnet did not decrease the string pull, since it's not really pulling the strings. What it did was make the pickup a little weaker, and you are getting sound mostly from one pickup coil.

The magnets are not any stronger than you would get with any pickup with a ceramic magnet, and a Jazz pickup will pull the strings a lot more!

I have a real Gibson mudbucker. I also had an older EB-2D. The EB2 used four magnets, and the newer pickup used two. They put the strong magnets on to try and get a clearer tone from all that wire wound on there, but they are supposed to be dark and muddy sounding pickups! They wanted them to be all fundamental like the pedals on a pipe organ. The real EB-0 had a cap to remove all the high end. The EB-2 and EB-3 had a choke to remove he mids.

Also the two coils read the same part of the string, so it doesn't matter if it's near the neck or bridge. They sense the strings at the poles.

From what I've seen, the Epi pckup is a sidewinder like the old Gibson pickup, but the Gibson version is some weird humbucker with a steel bar between the upward facing coils, with pole screws.

This is what the Gibson version looks like.

 

["Q"]

Removing the magnet did not decrease the string pull, since it's not really pulling the strings. What it did was make the pickup a little weaker, and you are getting sound mostly from one pickup coil.

The magnets are not any stronger than you would get with any pickup with a ceramic magnet, and a Jazz pickup will pull the strings a lot more!

I have a real Gibson mudbucker. I also had an older EB-2D. The EB2 used four magnets, and the newer pickup used two. They put the strong magnets on to try and get a clearer tone from all that wire wound on there, but they are supposed to be dark and muddy sounding pickups! They wanted them to be all fundamental like the pedals on a pipe organ. The real EB-0 had a cap to remove all the high end. The EB-2 and EB-3 had a choke to remove he mids.

Also the two coils read the same part of the string, so it doesn't matter if it's near the neck or bridge. They sense the strings at the poles.

From what I've seen, the Epi pckup is a sidewinder like the old Gibson pickup, but the Gibson version is some weird humbucker with a steel bar between the upward facing coils, with pole screws.

This is what the Gibson version looks like.

Well on mine the bar magnets are right at the top edge of the pickup while the polepiece slug only comes from the bottom of the pickup to about half way up. Also I'm keeping the screws pretty far down into the cover so I'm getting more pull from the magnets themselves.

 

["Q"]

Also, I believe theres a resistor in series with the pickup in the control cavity. If thats so I think I might want to reduce the magnetism even more and take that thing out.

 

[SGD Lutherie]

[QUOTE="Q";9720381]Well on mine the bar magnets are right at the top edge of the pickup while the polepiece slug only comes from the bottom of the pickup to about half way up. Also I'm keeping the screws pretty far down into the cover so I'm getting more pull from the magnets themselves.[/QUOTE]

No, the way it works is there is a blade that runs through both coils. The blade is connected to the keeper bar which holds the poles. The magnets are the same polarity facing the poles, so their field is looping over to the poles. It's that loop that is sensing the strings at the poles.

[QUOTE="Q";9720454]Also, I believe theres a resistor in series with the pickup in the control cavity. If thats so I think I might want to reduce the magnetism even more and take that thing out.[/QUOTE]

If it's in series, then the resistor is there to reduce the signal from the pickup to make it blend better with the bridge pickup (which was a big problem with EB-3s). Because the neck pickup has such a high impedance it overpowers the bridge pickup.

You can't reduce the magnetism more. If you remove the other magnet the pickup wont work anymore. Weaker magnets will sound duller as well.

They are not clear sounding basses. That's why DiMarzio made the Model 1 pickup so people could get a different tone from their Gibsons. Gibson makes them this way because that's how they used to be. The pickup is dark sounding because it has so much wire wound on it. By contrast you can make a sidewinder like this with less wire and it will sound very bright. I make pickups like that, and another example are Q-Tuners.

Here's an old sidewinder. You can see the steel blade that runs though the coils. I rewound this one to 12K to sound clearer and brighter. I also added 4-conductor cable so I could wire it in parallel. I had it installed in my '73 Rick bass.

 

["Q"]

It's that loop that is sensing the strings at the poles.

So the poles are just what pulls the field into the coils? This is interesting stuff.

Also, I don't think I'd like a shorter coil much. I don't like the highs it puts out as it is. In fact the only pickup I really like the highs from a lot is a jazz so far; ricks are ok too.

FWIW my favorite pickups ever are both Guilds. The neck pickup on a JS Bass seems a lot hotter than the sidewinders I've played. And the "Big Jazz" type on the B-301 is the best all around pickup I've ever played other than a P. Too bad they were such terrible basses other than that though. Can you make me a B-301 pickup perchance? lol I'm sure that would be an interesting challenge for you. Obscurity ftw.

 

[throbgod13]

a good upgrade would be a Darkstar, instead of the mudbucker..

it seems to me that there are many mods that you could do to the mudbucker to make it less like the stock pickup.. one would be to build a discrete filter to change the overall tone character of the pickup.. tear it apart, rewind it with a different gauge wire and different windings for the coils.. you could make the pickup coils asymmetrical.. scatterwind the coils.. change the bars that go through the coils themselves.. i.e. thicker metal, thinner metal.. change the type of metal used..

drill and tap the center bar and insert hidden pole pieces.. create a new center pole bar, raise the face up to meet the underside of the cover..

remove the metal bar and replace it with a single huge bar magnet, then make false pole screws to look the same..

put a cover on a Music Man style pickup, or a DiMarzio X2N-Bass, and make false pole screws.. similar to what Gibson is doing with the humbucker in their cover..

there's always an alternative, it just depends on to what extent you want to go to..

 

[SGD Lutherie]

[QUOTE="Q";9723511]So the poles are just what pulls the field into the coils? This is interesting stuff.[/QUOTE]

The pole gets the magnetic field up to the string, and then the string moving in the field cause current to flow in the coils.

Also, I don't think I'd like a shorter coil much. I don't like the highs it puts out as it is. In fact the only pickup I really like the highs from a lot is a jazz so far; ricks are ok too.

Then removing a magnet would have made it a bit darker.

FWIW my favorite pickups ever are both Guilds. The neck pickup on a JS Bass seems a lot hotter than the sidewinders I've played. And the "Big Jazz" type on the B-301 is the best all around pickup I've ever played other than a P. Too bad they were such terrible basses other than that though. Can you make me a B-301 pickup perchance? lol I'm sure that would be an interesting challenge for you. Obscurity ftw.

Yeah, the big Jazz-meets-Pbass coil. Yes, I can make one of those, but it would be in a different case, since I can't get those.

I also liked the Guide humbuckers they used after the Hagtrom pickups (the ones the DarkStars are a copy of). They were thick and bassy.