replacing preamp with an Arctec MB-1 master blender board that I bought new off ebay today. Will let you know if it is an improvement over the stock board on which the concentric treble/volume controls which seem to have failed.
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I picked up my fretless Zenith about a year ago and I love it. I think it works well for a number of things. I especially like it slightly muted when playing rockabilly covers or unmuted for some mwah during slower acoustic stuff like Fates Warning's "APSOG IX" or Opeth's "To Bid You Farewell".
Has anybody tried to lower the action on the fixed bridge from the factory setup? Or swapped out the Labella tape-wounds for regular flats?
Has anybody tried to lower the action on the fixed bridge from the factory setup? Or swapped out the Labella tape-wounds for regular flats?
GHolland - Aren't they fun basses? Once you get used to the quirky electronics, they really grow on the player. I have a fretted and a fretless, and have tried both flatwounds and tapewounds on each. I've gone back to flats for the fretted and tapes for the fretless. I tried both Chromes and TI Jazz Flats on the fretted, and currently have Chromes. It seems to me that it's a slightly smaller gauge set, nonetheless, I had to adjust the neck tension.
I have not had the nuts adjusted on either bass, which could use a setuo to lower the action- they both play a bit high in the first position (E-G on the E strings). It doesn't bother me that much, but I'd like to get it done at some point.
I haven't tried to lower the bridge bar. The bar comes out reasonably easy when you remove the strings. The problem with sanding material off the bottom of the bar would be the possibililty of removing too much material and having to come up with a replacement on one's own. I would think it impossible to get a replacement part from Gibson, especially since the Zenith is discontinued. Of course, a good luthier could fabricate a new bridge bar out of wood, bone, or some other material, but it's likely a pricey item.
Once you find the strings you want to stick with, get a pro nut setup and neck adjustment, then learn to play the bass as it becomes then. I think the action will be a little high no matter what; but especially on the fretless, that will be a bit cleaner playing and not as buzzy. Getting a set of strings that you like on there with the right tension will help the playing feel a lot. I would say try a couple different kinds of tapes, and don't be afraid to give some lower-tension flats a try, too.
I'm glad you like the Zenith! I'm just sorry that the production is over and more bassists won't get to give them a try.
I have not had the nuts adjusted on either bass, which could use a setuo to lower the action- they both play a bit high in the first position (E-G on the E strings). It doesn't bother me that much, but I'd like to get it done at some point.
I haven't tried to lower the bridge bar. The bar comes out reasonably easy when you remove the strings. The problem with sanding material off the bottom of the bar would be the possibililty of removing too much material and having to come up with a replacement on one's own. I would think it impossible to get a replacement part from Gibson, especially since the Zenith is discontinued. Of course, a good luthier could fabricate a new bridge bar out of wood, bone, or some other material, but it's likely a pricey item.
Once you find the strings you want to stick with, get a pro nut setup and neck adjustment, then learn to play the bass as it becomes then. I think the action will be a little high no matter what; but especially on the fretless, that will be a bit cleaner playing and not as buzzy. Getting a set of strings that you like on there with the right tension will help the playing feel a lot. I would say try a couple different kinds of tapes, and don't be afraid to give some lower-tension flats a try, too.
I'm glad you like the Zenith! I'm just sorry that the production is over and more bassists won't get to give them a try.
Yeah, it's a blast! Still learning the nuances of mine... sweet zones, different plucking locations and styles, muting techniques. I have one dead spot that I need to have looked at. It may just be the fretline sticking up. It's way up high on the D and I don't get up there much so it's not a priority. One of these days I may get adventurous and see about the bridge nut... I have a sharp edge on mine that I'd like to sand down anyway... scrapes the nylon as the strings are tightened.
I've owned a fretless Zenith for the past year and like it a lot. Sounds greatest to me when paired with acoustics. I recently opened the back and found two switches inside. I contacted Gibson and learned that the top switch is a phase switch and that the bottom switch is a boost for the neck pickup. Just wanted to share in case anyone is interested.
Twocan - I definitely am! Which switch is which, and what position does what, on each one? Can you post the info you got from Gibson here?
The Zenith definitely needs a Nanomag boost, as the mag has quite a bit lower output than the Nanoflex (piezo).
I'm guessing the phase switch controls the phase of the pickups to each other? It could also be the output phase, similar to what the phase switches on upright bass preamps such as the Fishman Platinum Pro and the Fdeck HPF-Pre Series III do.
I will be playing a theatre show next week, and would like to make sure I have those switches set correctly before I dive in.
Here is the full email:
"Hello,
If looking at the bass from the back in the normal playing position the switch on the top is a phase switch for the nanomag and nanoflex.
The switch on the bottom is a boost for the nanomag. It was included to provide a better output level balance between the nanomag and nanoflex depending on what strings are used.
As you know the fretless uses tapewound strings which require a bit more gain from the nanomag preamp to provide an even response with the under-saddle piezo."
"Hello,
If looking at the bass from the back in the normal playing position the switch on the top is a phase switch for the nanomag and nanoflex.
The switch on the bottom is a boost for the nanomag. It was included to provide a better output level balance between the nanomag and nanoflex depending on what strings are used.
As you know the fretless uses tapewound strings which require a bit more gain from the nanomag preamp to provide an even response with the under-saddle piezo."
I have just closed up the Zenith after looking at the switches. It figures that Gibson's employee said which switch was which, but didn't say which position did what!
As noted before, the circuit board does not have any graphics screened on it to tell anything about the switch positions. It does have Nanomag and Nanoflex screened onto the board next to the plug connectors for the respective pickups, but that's it.
I set the top (phase) switch to the left position, and the bottom (Nanomag boost) to the right position. I figured for each one, that the base setting is to the left, and the changed setting is to the right.
This may or may not be correct. Twocan, any idea of which setting does what?
When I looked at these switches last, I had the bass plugged into an amp, and played the bass with the different combinations of switch settings, but could not hear a noticeable difference.
Also, fortunately, I checked the 9V voltage on a battery tester. The battery was a new (at that time) Duracell alkaline that I installed this past summer. I played two theatre productions with the bass, each one was about 15 rehearsals and performances. I also played a short Christmas program at a local church, and the first rehearsal for the show this week.
It was nearly depleted. I had not heard any low-voltage distortion at the rehearsal, but the battery would have died over the course of this week. Compared to some of my other active basses, I would say the Zenith has a higher than normal battery draw.
So, Zenith owners, if you are gigging pretty often, check your battery every couple of weeks to be safe.
It was nearly depleted. I had not heard any low-voltage distortion at the rehearsal, but the battery would have died over the course of this week. Compared to some of my other active basses, I would say the Zenith has a higher than normal battery draw.
So, Zenith owners, if you are gigging pretty often, check your battery every couple of weeks to be safe.
Michael - because the pass is active, make sure you're unplugging the bass when not in use. Leaving it plugged in will drain your battery.
I played with the switches while the back plate was unscrewed and the bass plugged in. I really did not detect much of a difference with the phase switch changed (from my left to my right)
When I moved the bottom switch to the right, I heard the boost right away. Make sure you are plugged into the stereo jack, otherwise you would not hear the boost!
Hope that helps
I played with the switches while the back plate was unscrewed and the bass plugged in. I really did not detect much of a difference with the phase switch changed (from my left to my right)
When I moved the bottom switch to the right, I heard the boost right away. Make sure you are plugged into the stereo jack, otherwise you would not hear the boost!
Hope that helps
Twocan- That's the config I used tonight, top switch on left, bottom on right.
I opened the bass back up before the rehearsal started tonight, and tried both switches in both settings, with the bass plugged into the headphone mixer with the cord plugged into the mono setting, which is what I've used since I bought both Zeniths in 2011. I could not tell much difference in settings on either switch, the same as when I did it before with the bass plugged into the amp.
The basses are always stored in their cases, never left plugged in. I think the electronics just drain a lot of battery life while being played.
I played most of tonight's rehearsal with the pickup pan rolled to the piezo side, as I think that has much more of the upright bass flavor. I did try boosting the bass quite a bit on the Nanomag side and then rolling in some of it on the blend control.
The Zenith's electronics are odd. I think that a better designed preamp board would have made the mag and piezo pickups much more balanceable and usable in the "mono" jack output. Having said that, the piezo does sound terrific, and if you boost the bass and treble on the mag, it's fine to change up the basic piezo sound by rolling it in on the blend control.
Ideally, one would run a cable from both pickup jacks in a stereo config, and then run a controlled mix into the front end of a DI or amp. Otherwise, the bass does not do a great job of mixing levels from the two pickups onboard to the mono output. That isn't a terrible thing, but it's a limitation of the design of the electronics of the Zenith basses.
It's funny, on my bass the nano mag is much louder than my piezo (the opposite of you). I've never had battery issues with mine. Overall, I think it's a great bass with truly unique tone.
I will open it back up today and check the modular plugs and jacks for the pickups, to make sure they are clean and seated properly, and give the electronics a more thorough inspection. Since the Zeniths were built in a two-year window from 2009-11, and that's been some time ago now, it could be that it's an oxidation problem on the contacts. While I have it open today, I'll take a picture and attach it so the readers of this thread can see what it looks like in there, if they haven't seen it.
The basses are perfectly usable as they are, even with the level mismatches. As I said previously, I could always buy a mini-mixer or a Tonebone-type DI with two channels and level controls, and just run the bass stereo. But it's really not that big a deal to me.
The basses are perfectly usable as they are, even with the level mismatches. As I said previously, I could always buy a mini-mixer or a Tonebone-type DI with two channels and level controls, and just run the bass stereo. But it's really not that big a deal to me.
Finally got around to opening mine up to try the switch settings. The top/phase switch (as oriented in the photo below) had no noticeable effect, but moving the lower switch to the right definitely boosted the Nanomag output so that it is much more balanced with the Nanoflex now. (I was plugged into the Mono jack and had the pickup selector knob turned all the way clockwise to select Nanomag only.) Thanks for the info Twocan!
No, there's no owner manual that anyone is aware of, that either came with the basses or is available online. This thread is one of the only sources of info on Zeniths, with several people having contacted Gibson/Epiphone directly and reporting the results here.
You might want to contact Gibson for possible repair work to be done. It'd be worthwhile to check the connections from the pickup leads to the preamp, maybe clean them with DeOxit and reseat them. Low battery can cause distortion in any active preamp design, but that's easily fixed by simply replacing the battery. If the noise continues after these steps, call Gibson. Warning.. it can be a frustrating process trying to get a response.
After having shelved the Zeniths most of this year in favor of my more recently acquired Ibanez Artcore AGB-140, I have gotten the fretted one out and played it through my new Acme B-1 cab. Wow! Tons of bass. With the amp bass control rolled off a bit, I can really hear the woody, upright type sound. I will probably play this bass for an upcoming theatre show. I'm getting a lot closer to attaining that near-upright sound that I've been pursuing for years now.
I hope this is not bad form to drop a note in here about looking for a Zenith. If any of you is considering parting with one of yours, I would sincerely like a PM to start a conversation. I love the sound, don't mind the weight and will consider fretted or fretless. Thanks.
