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Epoxy on Ebonol Fingerboard?

To Epoxy, or Not To Epoxy (in this particular case, not just in general!)

  • Yes

    Votes: 4 44.4%

  • No

    Votes: 3 33.3%

  • Create a coating of mashed carrots for carrotty "mwah"

    Votes: 2 22.2%
  • Total voters
    9
Moley13

Moley13

Apr 30, 2014
639
234
Canberra, Australia
#1
Hi all,

I've read a few threads on this topic, but have a slightly different angle so thought I'd start a new thread rather than dig up the old ones. For reference, they are here:

http://www.talkbass.com/threads/strings-on-fretless-squier-jazz-bass.783815/
http://www.talkbass.com/threads/roundwound-on-a-fretless-bad-for-the-board.446208/page-2
http://www.talkbass.com/threads/fretless-basses-with-ebonol-fingerboards.352962/

So, I've recently acquired a Squier VM Jazz. I'm seriously loving it (it gets much more playing than my Fender Jazz). I'm putting some serious lines in the FB, though. Yes, if I wipe them, they are much less visible (as the white powder doesn't highlight them any more), but if I run my finger over it little grooves can definitely be felt.

A few things I should lay out, right from the start:
-Yes, it is a squier. If I actually made it unplayable in a year or two, I could probably buy a new one.
-I won't change to flats. Gotta be rounds.
-I DO like to bend notes. I know this seriously wears the board.
-I DO like to dig in, and have a "firm" touch (on this bass). I've never been able to get the tone I like any other way.
-My purpose for having this bass is not to be a tone pioneer. Jaco sound is just fine :) For argument's sake, let's say I'm going for THE Jaco sound (except obviously he didn't have ebonol!).

The FB is not perfectly smooth anyway (there are very slight bumps where the lines are), so I was thinking of sanding it anyway, so my real question is: Should I epoxy it.

The things I've heard which I would like some clarification on:
-Epoxy changes the tone (I suspect I'd like this change, if there is one)
-The grooves in the FB create "mwah" (this sounds plausible but also could be very silly)
-Since Epoxy covers the FB, it doesn't really matter what material is underneath, as the tone is coming from the Epoxy (this would be nice, since it would mean Ebonol could sound the same as Ebony/Rosewood).

Any advice/opinions/experience?
 
#2
Ebonol is phenol based. Your epoxy may of not stick to it depending on the solvent used.
You may of not experiment tone changes. Ebonol is notorious for great mwah, which mainly comes from setup and fingers anyway.
Epoxy will get the same kind of grooves you make in ebonol anyway. They're equally hard and it's a normal process. Have the bass sanded every few years or do it yourself, that's it.

It's worth noting that maximum mwah is achieved with low action and requires a light attack rather than digging in. You may want to work on this rather than modify the bass.
 
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#3
I've had two different ebonol boards, and looked into this heavily.

The first thing you need to know is that ebonol is not a real wood. It is basically a fingerboard that is made out of gluing and compressing many sheets of black paper together. Because it is essentially a glue, there is no pores and there would be no way for the epoxy to penetrate the ebonol as it would a real wood... However, you can still coat it and protect it, but with super glue! Yes, that right... Do a search on google and put this in the google search bar:

site:talkbass.com super glue fingerboard

Hopefully that will bring up many threads only on talkbass where people have done and explained how to do this. I don't think super glue will be much ardor than ebonol and may still scratch, but you can reapply superglue at any time to fill in the grooves.

Since you can already feel the grooves, I would recommend re-leveling the board first. Go to stewmac.com and get yourself a 9.5" radiused sanding block, the longer the better. You will need this block anyway to sand off excess super glue when refinishing. Start with a course grit and work your way to a finer one, finish it off with automotive liquid scratch remover, then a polish. You will however loose the nice shiny dark black look of the board. In my experience, it lightens up a tad to a dark grey and as you go through the layers of paper, it will make the board almost look like it has grains like real wood. The paper won't be felt though and will still feel like glass.

Regarding your other concerns:
1) epoxy on wood does change the tone, since epoxy is much harder than wood. In this case, the super glue is not much harder than ebonol already, so you may not notice a difference, but if you did, it may make your tone brighter, and likely bring out more mwah.

2) No. Mwah is better achieved with a super flat fingerboard (no grooves), very low action and relief, accentuating/soloing the bridge pickup and plucking closer to, or maybe even over, the fingerboard. Mwah, is that somewhat nasally, singing tone, you can only get out of a fretless. For me, the more mwah the better. If you do everything stated so far, you'll have tons of mwah. I'd also recommend DR Sunbeams as those strings have a great bump in the mids, which will bring out the mwah better, and make your bass sing.

3) Yes. This new board of yours will sound like an ebony board that has been epoxied... Maybe even brighter.
 
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#4
Wow, some really great responses. I love this place.

I think after reading these responses I'll just let it get chewed up for a bit, then re-radius it in a year or so (filling any deep grooves with super glue).

@Matthew_84 , do you have any photos of your refinished boards?

To clarify my "technique" - I do lighten up and move fingerboard-wards when I want mega mwah, but in general I prefer to dig in a little more and play over the bridge pup. Also, it's what I'd consider digging in, but it's not like, metal hard or anything ;) Still get plenty of mway playing down by the bridge.

I guess I was just slightly alarmed how quickly I had started to chew it up (thinking "man, if this was rosewood........"). It seems this is pretty normal, though, particularly if I'm bending the string a little at times :) And sounds like it's easy enough to fix when it starts to get seriously annoying!

For my possibly future fretless purchases, would Ebony be recommended, given the amount of wear I'm inflicting on the Ebonol? Or Epoxied Rosewood? Epoxied doesn't-matter-get-what-you-like?
 
#8
I also play fretless. Tons. I had a rosewood board coated wit epoxy, an ebonol, and my current ebony. Using Stainless Steel rounds. Always. First? The grooves and ghost lines most certainly do contribute to "mwah". And are most certainly NOT a death knell fer great sound. I played all three of my basses a helluvva lot, and had to treat the boards sparingly. Also, low action is not the only way to mwah. The correct action for your playin style is key. Jaco did not have ridiculously low action. Nor does Tony Franklin. As far as comparsons tone and wear wise? Epoxy and ebonol very similar. The ebonol, to my hands and ears, is softer sounding, and feeling. Slightly. A rounder tone. Epoxy is dead unforgiving on the top end, even with passive tone controls rolled off, it has a signature, sometimes more harsh, top end. Ebony is my fave. Period. It actually wears better than ebonol, and no white streaks, and the sound is far more natural, organic and is just as defined. I went thru tons of effort to epoxy two boards in my lifetime. I wouldn't do it a third. Knowin what I know now.
 
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#9
Mighty Might makes an unlined ebonol fretless neck for just over $100.
At that price, just wear 'em down and replace.

It's gotta be easier when you consider the time and elbow grease spent sanding and messing with coating glues on the board.
 
#10
Those lines you feel are why I hate Squier VMs, none of them actually come as fretless basses. The fretlines are not radiused down with the neck, basically making little frets. You cannot get any kind of decent setup (or mwah) without properly leveling the board first. I have not seen one VM fretless actually come proper from the factory. You will need to use a proper radius gauge sanding block if you don't want to harm the neck. Some guys do it lightly with a fine grade without a block but I personally wouldn't. Just note that you will lose the shine of the board when you sand it down, I am sure it can be restored but I never bothered with mine.

The little dents you feel the strings making will not affect it for a while, your fretboard needs to get pretty chewed up before it gets bad. I personally wouldn't coat ebonol, that is the whole point of it. I found the tone of the ebonol similar to epoxy, it is a flat hard surface. I haven't played many epoxied boards but I don't think it matters whats underneath of the epoxy. If you are going for Jaco style epoxy it is super thick, like 1/8" thick, no way the wood matters.
 
#11
Nev375 said:
Mighty Might makes an unlined ebonol fretless neck for just over $100.
At that price, just wear 'em down and replace.

It's gotta be easier when you consider the time and elbow grease spent sanding and messing with coating glues on the board.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I saw those necks, would probably have just bought one of those if I'd had a spare jazz body (4 string) around. Loved the look of the VM jazz though ;) I doubt I'll do any serious work on it, given the suggestions here and the price for a new neck/bass (gotta remember getting necks shipped to Aus actually costs quite a bit).

I expect if I completely destroy the neck on it, I'll just buy a nice ebony fretless neck for my 5 string Deluxe. I'm really, really loving the sound of this guy, and the poor Deluxe is barely getting out of the case these days (losing its gigs to Stingrays/Fretless).

Thanks for all the posts! I'd be keen to see what the sanded Ebonol looks like. If anybody knows how to get the colour/shine back too let me know.
 
#14
Moley13 said:
Have you done this on ebonol? What would you buff it with/how? Would be handy to know if in a year or so I decide it's time to hit "reset" on that board. Not to mention, I could get rid of those "micro frets" ;)
Click to expand...

I'd start by using paper towels to polish it since I don't like a high shine. Or you could use automotive polishing compound to get a higher shine. Google is your friend.
 
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