ESP MusicCord

[Bob Lee (QSC)]

Reliability refers to the consistency of a measure. A test is considered reliable if we get the same result repeatedly.

Yes, and the quality of the comaprison is key to this.

To gauge test-retest reliability, the test is administered at different points in time. This kind of reliability is used to assess the consistency of a test across time. This type of reliability assumes that there will be no change in the quality or construct being measured (whether or not I thought the cable sounded better).

I'm pointing out that previous posters suggestions that I'm hearing a difference is due to psychological variables would be revealed by test/rest over periods of time. I can consistently distinguish the two cables not just on my first comparison of them, but after many tests with time in between. This establishes the reliability of my assessment. If it changed over time, then we could conclude that my initial testing was biased by some kind of transient state/mood.

You would have to have a valid test in the first place. Time by itself does not make the test valid. Your comparison was not double blind, so it's a poor one. A badly done test over a long period of time is still a badly done test. I'll take a good test done in a short period of time over that any day.

 

[Robin Ruscio]

That's a judgment call, and while diminishing returns do play into it, there is a point where it absolutely can sound better, though some might prefer the sound of the first clip with the standard cord.

But being an upright player, you should know that there is such a thing as "string engagement." That's why most people don't play upright lightly with the tippy tips of the fingers. Most of them give the strings a pretty good yank with the side of their finger because the more you engage the string, the better it sounds. It's a very well-known concept for upright, and it's the reason most upright players do it that way.

I still think "he's playing harder" is a poor explanation of the sound difference on Rhode's demo. The tonal variation does not resemble what I would expect to change tonally due to finger attack variations. He's also playing with a subtle range of dynamics in his playing moment to moment, as you would expect from a musician of his caliber.

 

[billfitzmaurice]

In a nutshell, the claims are that the MusicCord with it's larger effective gauge can supply the power more readily than a "normal" power cord which gives an impact on the tone of the amp. The counter claim is that standard power cord is sufficient to supply current needed by the amp and the MusicCord is overkill.

If you have 1/2" water pipes in your house and put a 2" hose on the outdoor spigot will it give you more water than a 1/2" hose will?

I can consistently distinguish the two cables not just on my first comparison of them, but after many tests with time in between

Then the cable is surely magic, and a cool million awaits you. What are you waiting for?
Next on the agenda: Cold Fusion. Why aren't we using it yet? It must be a plot by the oil companies!

 

[Bob Lee (QSC)]

I still think "he's playing harder" is a poor explanation of the sound difference on Rhode's demo. The tonal variation does not resemble what I would expect to change tonally due to finger attack variations. He's also playing with a subtle range of dynamics in his playing moment to moment, as you would expect from a musician of his caliber.

So the samples sound different and he's playing differently in each one, but wait, they don't sound different because he's playing differently, it's all due to a power cord?

Mmmm.

 

[4-string]

Like it or not, the ESP MusicCord works.

People hear a difference, and they are happy. Sounds like a great product if you ask me.

Now, for the big names and pros who endorse this product, that doesn't really mean much. Remember that Eric Johnson swears by almost dead batteries for his pedals, and they have to be zinc IIRC. Many of us trust our ears way too much.

But if it makes us happy, why not.

 

[Bob Lee (QSC)]

Like it or not, the ESP MusicCord works.

I don't think anyone has claimed that it (or any other power cord) doesn't work.

 

[4-string]

I don't think anyone has claimed that it (or any other power cord) doesn't work.

Hehe, you are right, and I was not spesific enough to say "as advertised". More or less.

 

[billfitzmaurice]

Hehe, you are right, and I was not spesific enough to say "as advertised". More or less.

It comes down to two words: Prove it. If it does what it claims it can be measured. Show us the measurements, repeatable and verifiable. Or get off it.

 

[JimmyM]

If some can hear a difference and some cant. Why not just leave it at that.

It's not like the power cord is causing either parties to go out and take a life.


At the end of the day the debate is still being a positive for the company.

Jauqo, got a lot of love and respect for you. You're super talented, you're a good guy, and if you remember, I was one of the earliest on here to say I could absolutely hear the pitches from your low C# string plain as day.

But again, I hate to see good, well meaning, and smart people get ripped off, even if the only loss is financial. Bernie Madoff didn't kill anyone, but I still want him under the jail. So that's the reason I am fired up about it and still hammering it. Maybe some of you guys will dislike us because we do it, but that's a chance that I'm willing to take because I believe so much that it doesn't work as advertised, and again, the laws of electrical current flow are absolute. I can't do a thing about those who believe it works as advertised, but maybe I can stop someone else from spending their money on it, and I can maybe get those who can still get a refund to do so.

 

[Robin Ruscio]

Yes, and the quality of the comaprison is key to this.

You would have to have a valid test in the first place. Time by itself does not make the test valid. Your comparison was not double blind, so it's a poor one. A badly done test over a long period of time is still a badly done test. I'll take a good test done in a short period of time over that any day.

We aren't discussing validity. I was establishing reliability, which is necessary but not sufficient for validity.

Yes, my own testing was not double blind and has major validity threats, but I don't think it's probable that my assessment would be as reliable if psychological expectancy was the main reason I was hearing a difference. We would have seen my ability to distinguish between the two cables diminish over time, assuming that whatever psychological state that previous posters were attributing to my "mishearing" was not sustainable. That's the point of test/rest- eliminating variables that could be influencing the the outcome due to situational factors, such as my arousal level during the test.

Jimmy would need to to his test again over time to establish that he had the same results (no discernible difference); reliability.

I'm not disagreeing with you that there are some validity issues. That being said, my test has some degree of validity, even w/o it being double blind. Just because it's not double blind does not mean it has no validity.

 

[David Jayne]

Wonder what happens if you have to use an extension cord?(gee, they should make those, too). Or plug your $150 cord into one of those falling apart gang boxes we find onstage so often? The longest ESP cord is 10 feet long, and you are plugging it into god-only-knows how many feet of ancient, falling apart Romex(or worse), fuse panels, etc.....why are we having this discussion?

 

[superiorpine]

Disclaimer: I have not read this entire thread. I have weighed in on this topic before however.

Do power cords make a difference? Yes. Is it a material difference? That appears to be the question of the day. As a recovering audiophile, in my opinion there is no question power cords make a difference. As a bass player the same holds true, for me. I can't answer how material it is or if the audience could tell at a gig, or if a recording engineer can notice. I can.

As to scientific measurements, see this link.

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Rock on gentlepersons.

 

[Robin Ruscio]

So the samples sound different and he's playing differently in each one, but wait, they don't sound different because he's playing differently, it's all due to a power cord?

Mmmm.

No, the second sample sounds consistently different, even with variations in his attack. Jimmy is not contesting that they sound different, he's simply attributing it to "playing harder".

Did you watch the vid? Are you unable to detect any difference?

Jimmy admits there is a different sound, somehow better sound. He's suggesting that Michael is intentionally playing differently.

 

[4-string]

It comes down to two words: Prove it. If it does what it claims it can be measured. Show us the measurements, repeatable and verifiable. Or get off it.

No need to prove anything as long as people are happy with the product.

I'm not getting one. I don't believe the hype, and I am happy with my gear as it is.

And more importantly, I have several friends with "golden ears" and hi-fi systems that cost more than my car. I can't believe all the things they hear, that I (with my not so golden ears) can't even detect. But it is a hobby and a passion, so I don't see the problem.

 

[JAUQO III-X]

Jauqo, got a lot of love and respect for you. You're super talented, you're a good guy, and if you remember, I was one of the earliest on here to say I could absolutely hear the pitches from your low C# string plain as day.

But again, I hate to see good, well meaning, and smart people get ripped off, even if the only loss is financial. Bernie Madoff didn't kill anyone, but I still want him under the jail. So that's the reason I am fired up about it and still hammering it. Maybe some of you guys will dislike us because we do it, but that's a chance that I'm willing to take because I believe so much that it doesn't work as advertised, and again, the laws of electrical current flow are absolute. I can't do a thing about those who believe it works as advertised, but maybe I can stop someone else from spending their money on it, and I can maybe get those who can still get a refund to do so.

Jimmy thank you and you know I got love and respect for you as well.


But no ones getting ripped off if they hear a difference. And neither are those who don't hear a difference.

And I'm not being sarcastic Jimmy.

 

[Robin Ruscio]

Wonder what happens if you have to use an extension cord?(gee, they should make those, too). Or plug your $150 cord into one of those falling apart gang boxes we find onstage so often? The longest ESP cord is 10 feet long, and you are plugging it into god-only-knows how many feet of ancient, falling apart Romex(or worse), fuse panels, etc.....why are we having this discussion?

The cable continues to make a similar tonal difference when plugged into an extension cord or any crap outlet on stage.

I somehow think this whole aspect of the discussion is somehow off mark, though I admit I do not understand the science of it. It seems to me the cable improves whatever faults the previous power may have in it.

 

[3506string]

As to scientific measurements, see this link.

Invalid Link Removed

Rock on gentlepersons.

Coming to you live from the people who bring you this Jewel.

The $3500 power cable.
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

 

[Bob Lee (QSC)]

Just because it's not double blind does not mean it has no validity.

Maybe not no validity--at the very least, it points out how susceptible one is to suggestion. But as a comparison, it's pretty worthless.

 

[MultiScaleMale]

But again, I hate to see good, well meaning, and smart people get ripped off, even if the only loss is financial. Bernie Madoff didn't kill anyone, but I still want him under the jail. So that's the reason I am fired up about it and still hammering it. Maybe some of you guys will dislike us because we do it, but that's a chance that I'm willing to take because I believe so much that it doesn't work as advertised, and again, the laws of electrical current flow are absolute. I can't do a thing about those who believe it works as advertised, but maybe I can stop someone else from spending their money on it, and I can maybe get those who can still get a refund to do so.

I think you're way off on this. I paid $119 for the cable and even if there are no sonic differences the build quality alone is worth it.

 

[JimmyM]

We aren't discussing validity. I was establishing reliability, which is necessary but not sufficient for validity.

Yes, my own testing was not double blind and has major validity threats, but I don't think it's probable that my assessment would be as reliable if psychological expectancy was the main reason I was hearing a difference. We would have seen my ability to distinguish between the two cables diminish over time, assuming that whatever psychological state that previous posters were attributing to my "mishearing" was not sustainable. That's the point of test/rest- eliminating variables that could be influencing the the outcome due to situational factors, such as my arousal level during the test.

Jimmy would need to to his test again over time to establish that he had the same results (no discernible difference); reliability.

Every day I have Rich's cable in my possession is a day later than he can return it and get his money back I already sent it back for that reason.

I'm not disagreeing with you that there are some validity issues. That being said, my test has some degree of validity, even w/o it being double blind. Just because it's not double blind does not mean it has no validity.

I would agree. An informal blind test is good enough to establish a level of validity, though. Will it hold up in the scientific community? Of course not. But it sure holds up better than knowing at all times which cable you're using. I not only proved to myself that the cable doesn't work as advertised, but I also proved that I absolutely can be manipulated into thinking it improves the sound when it really doesn't. As I said many times, there were times I really thought it improved the sound, only to plug the other cable in and get the exact same result.

I know you're not going to, but I would suggest taking a blind test at the very least. Take several over time if you have to. I will bet anyone on here $50 that they can't pick out the ESP cord with any reliability. Of course, your standard of proof that the results are legit will be mighty high for me to pony up but I would absolutely pay if you met that burden of proof.