Euphonic vs. ThunderFunk vs. Acoustic Image

[Chef]

I just want to say: this is a great example of folks playing well together, and that's what TB is all about! Thanks y'all!

 

[jmain]

I just want to say: this is a great example of folks playing well together, and that's what TB is all about! Thanks y'all!

YUP!!

 

[MikeBass]

First off, you didn't make the original comment. Secondly, as you stated, you never opened an iamp. Finally, althoughyou obviously have expertise and are qualified to judge build quality, please see items 1 and 2.

Everything you state is correct.

Actually there is a "damn" thing I can do. I can set the record straight. I can correct misconceptions. Can I change their opinion, probably not. Ken's opinion will never be changed and that's really OK. I just will not allow misconceptions be spread as truths.

They are the same switches you'll find on the finest, most expensive mixing boards. Does not seem to be a feeling of "cheap" in that application In fact to use those switches the overall engineering quality has to be better than if you were to use bat handle switches, there is no tolerance for error for the switch to work properly. What would make them feel "expensive", if it had a faux metal cap that changed the appearance. I respect that some might feel that the switches are cheap and I am here to assure people that a) they are not and b) they're reliabilty is unquestioned.



Opinions are like .... , well you know

Peace
Mike

Wow, if I had a product rep that responded like that....well you know, like you said, opinions again

My take on it was simply....well, from what I read in your post I should maybe not respond correct?!?!

Like I stated, your information is from EA and not based on any hard engineering data that you have experenced yourself vs other switches/caps/ect??
I'm not saying that what you claim or state is false, but since you originally jumped in with:

What knowledge, experience, technical/design expertise, data is this based on?

one could also ask the same of you. What do you base your claims on outside of working for EA? And using their data?
And since you are a product rep for the company there could be a motive here at work that either A) could benifit your bottom line. Which would be IMO, a little against ones morals, let alone the CUP. Or B) be used to change opinion.

I understand you asking for something at least tangable to back up a claim of "lower build quality". How about addressing it by finding out what the claim is based upon rather than demanding:

What knowledge, experience, technical/design expertise, data is this based on?

Oh yeah, opinions again. Sorry.
It could have been as easy as someone didn't return the amp to EA for service to fix a faulty switch. But had their tech do it.

It's funny, but since I chimed in, I had a few PM's about EA's breaking down. And Smash also posted up an experiance

In fact to use those switches the overall engineering quality has to be better than if you were to use bat handle switches, there is no tolerance for error for the switch to work properly.

This is the part I like the most. Either a switch functions or it doesn't. The engineering quality of what exactly? I'm sure you could find high quality switches with extreamly high tollerences in either style.
The "bat handle" is systematicly larger, so yes some additional planning as to the layout of the controls is in place. But the overall engineering quality has to be better?
How does......never mind.

But a blanket claim that one is "better" than the other to me is quite silly. From either side of the fence. Especially when tangable data is available to point to high tollerence switches in both styles.
Both may be a better choice (than the other)for a given application. The "finest, most expensive mixing boards" also don't have the option of vast area to mount the larger "bat handle" switch, so again, for the application.

Let's face it, a good solid "clunk" to most gives the apperance of better quality than the little "click" of the switches that EA uses. Even though we both may know that may not allways be the case. It's the perception in the consumer market place.
And changing that will be tough as you have seen.

You stated a McGuiver moment. Now there is some proof that one may be better than the other in that case. Hands down!!


The first chance I get to crack open a EA, I'm gonna jump all over it like a pissy New Yorker who thinks his ego is at stake.

 

[Akami]

What makes it "higher build quality" ? What knowledge, experience, technical/design expertise, data is this based on?

Because it was nothing more than the original posters opinion it may be correct and it may be mistaken, therefore no expertise required for having an opinion.

No on dissed your amps but there will always be those who find them to be the holy grail and those who have other preferences.

I think you're trying to squash a thread that is going a direction you don't like, even though the original poster of the statement that you didn't like seems to have no animosity to your products.

And neither do I, but I'm sensing a problem with some company reps here on this site who try their best to make an attack on any opinion that suggests that their product is anything other than a godsend to the masses.

 

[MikeBass]

Perhaps it isn't just the reps, but before you cast stones consider that Epifani and Aguilar (and at one point Sadowsky was also trying to) copied EA and so they're understandably proud, and with all that going on what could possibly be improved?

Really?
Please do tell this.
Or should I read a bit of scarcasm in there some place?

 

[David Wiener]

Hi- Thanks for your very indepth review of these heads. I was considering all of them. Unfortunately I can't find a TF near me to listen to. I was wondering if you had any experience with the Epifani head and the Mesa Walkabout and how they compared with the others. I like the fact that the TF sounds good with all cabinets. Thanks for your help. Best regards, Dave

I've owned all three and now only still have the Thunderfunk.

As you say, they are all great sounding heads, but all sound very, very, very different. So, it's more about what sound you are looking for, and what cabs you are using.

Here's my quick take. Lot's of threads on these heads, so also do a search:

iAmp800..... has the biggest low end and the sizzliest treble (if you want it) of the bunch. Very effective EQ. I found the presets of minimal use. It's the largest and heaviest of the three, but still small and light for the sound it puts out. This head has the lowest build quality IMO of the three, but is still OK. I found this head to sound great with some cabs (especially the EA cabs) and not so good with others. I like quite a bit of mid punch in my sound, and the iAmp always sounded kind of 'EQd' to me with the mids dialed in. Huge headroom though, and a low end that can really shake a room. Definitely not 'plug and play'.... needs some tweeking to sound good. The low end really is exceptional on this head.

Focus..... crazy small and light... almost unbelievable. Plenty loud into 4ohms, but it has a very warm, relatively dark voicing to my ear. The EQ is very limited, and the amp has a very strong mid response built into its sound (again IMO). Many who own this amp and use it with EB place some sort of additional pre in front of it. This amp is also quite sensitive to which cabinet it is paired with.... it can go from sounding very nice (like with the Epi112UL's) to quite anemic with a lack of low end punch with other cabs. My least favorite of the three you mention. However, the voicing and pre of this amp sounds GREAT with semi-acoustic instruments like the Rob Allen or EUB's... very organic and warm. It also works very well IMO if you are primarily a 'bridge pickup fingerstyle player who plays 'close to the bridge'... that sound is warm and fat but still quick through this head. J Bass with both pickups wide open and SS round wounds... not so much IMO. Edit: I notice you list the 2R version of this head... which is two channel with effects. Since the other two are single channel heads, I assume having two channels is not important. If you go with a Focus I Series III, you can save some cash if you don't need the effects, etc.


Thunderfunk..... smaller and lighter than the iAmp, but larger than the Focus.... very 'plug and play'.... sounds good 'flat'. The most powerful EQ of the bunch IMO, with multiple semi-parametric mids, enhance, timbre control, revoicing switch, and traditional treble and bass shelving. The sound of this amp is very quick (like the iAmp) but much warmer and punchier in the low mids. It sounds good with every cab I've used it with, and is a loud 550 watts. It does not have the huge low end of the iAmp, and the treble is not as extended, but it has a very wonderful 'mid definition' built into it, with a very tight and usable low end. It sounds just great on the gig for many styles of music. It has IMO the best build quality of the three by far. Some find the punch, tight lows and quickness a little too much for their sound (I recommend the Eden WT550 in that case.... similar volume and size with a little wider low end, a little more 'give' in the preamp, and a sweeter treble... due IMO to the tube in the pre). Per that previous comment, this head will sound the most similar to the WT300 you have listed in your profile, but will be louder, quicker and have a tighter, more driving low end.


All three of these companies provide great service after the sale, and again, all are great in their own way. I find the TF sounds the best to me set reasonably flat on a gig, which is a big positive. It's interesting that the amp that sounds the best 'flat' has the most extensive tone controls.

All IMO, as always.

 

[KJung]

Hi- Thanks for your very indepth review of these heads. I was considering all of them. Unfortunately I can't find a TF near me to listen to. I was wondering if you had any experience with the Epifani head and the Mesa Walkabout and how they compared with the others. I like the fact that the TF sounds good with all cabinets. Thanks for your help. Best regards, Dave

Hello! It seems your thread became sidetracked! It is sometimes difficult on this site to provide what is intended to be unbiased, honest, and hopefully helpful opinion backed up by personal experience, especially where certain brands are involved.

Back on point, I've also owned the Walkabout. It is a wonderful product, but very, very different from the one's you are considering. The power/volume is significantly lower than the others (although it is a 'loud' 300 watts). However, the primary difference is it is very 'tube sounding'.... very warm, lot's of growly, grindy, tube-like mid character. It is a hybrid design, but has much more tube character than, for example, the Eden or SWR hybrids. That can be a good thing or a bad thing depending on the sound you are going for.

I have not had the pleasure of trying the Epi502, but have heard good things about them. I believe the power output/volume is similar to the original three heads you are considering (600 watts RMS). I also believe there is a single channel version being released soon that is closer in price to your original three choices.

Finally, I believe Dave at Thunderfunk has a trial/return policy if you want to check out his product.

 

[Chef]

I'll second that the mesa is very tubey, and too much so for me as a Thunderfunk and Eden user, and past swr user.
Thunderfunk used to have a 10 day or 2 week "return it for the cost of return shipping" policy when you bought sirect, but I've had mine for 18+ months.
Another company that does the trial policy is Carvin, and while thier name may cause some folks to wince, I've heard nothing but good about thier B500/800/1500 linefrom folks here, and there are a couple of B500 for just plain stupid cheap on ebay right now.

 

[AlembicBill]

A different slant on the rant:

Boy, you guys are tough. You dredge up posts from 2+ years ago and continue to beat them to death. It reminds me of the guy who thinks Walter Woods amps are good, but don't have enough power (because the only one he ever saw was a 100W in 1983), or the guy who won't buy a Ford because he heard there was a recall (never mind that every major manufacturer has suffered a similar fate).

Lemons, bad luck, differing tastes, varying moods, diverse needs, and level of expectations affect our assessments of products.

Facts are immutable, but must be taken in context. Since the context is usually very complex, we subtly break it down by our own priorities: interpreting the facts. This interpretation gives birth to opinions. Opinions are further influenced by personal experience, trust in another's personal experience, belief in another's writing, etc.

The use of "IMO" and "IMHO" is supposed to temper the strength of an opinion, but sometimes fails to do so.
And you know what they say about opinions: They're like ******** - everyone has one and they all stink.

Sorry. I got worked up while reading this thread, and I had to respond....with my opinion.

For the record, I love my brand-new iAMP500 and Wizzy. That's a fact.

And now we return to your regularly scheduled program.

 

[Jeff A]

The use of "IMO" and "IMHO" is supposed to temper the strength of an opinion, but sometimes fails to do so.

Agreed.

Especially when certain voices carry more weight than others.

...but how does one respond in a "reasonably, acceptable fashion" when they are one of those voices?? Very difficult situation, indeed.

Hmmm.

 

[yosoyjoeschmoe]

What are people's overall opinions of the AI Focus paired with an Aguilar GS 112?

 

[jmain]

What are people's overall opinions of the AI Focus paired with an Aguilar GS 112?

IMHO it was okay, but I liked the Focus better with my EA cabs or Epifani UL cab. I'm liking more mid presence lately, and given the Focus' controls (not as sensitive as the iAmp's), I didn't like the Focus paired witht he Aggie as much as I did my UL-112 or VLs. If I didn't have the other cabs, it would work. I did like the GS-112/UL-112 stack with the Focus, as the UL provided the mids that I want. Of course, OMMV

 

[Smallequestrian]

Just one, eh? How many TBers alone have had the caps blow? I know, I know, it's just one disgruntled person posting with a dozen aliases and no one anywhere other than TB has had this problem.

Just FYI, Electrolytic caps blowing was actually a case of a rash of bad caps that plagued the passive electronics industry over the last couple of years. Just ask Dell, they spent about 300 million dollars last year replacing motherboards on their Optiplex line. And it wasn't just a couple bad companies, some of the more respected passive electronic manufacturers had this problem, including the Nichicon who caused most of Dell's problems.

 

[yosoyjoeschmoe]

I guess what I'm trying to find out is if the AI with the Aggie 112 sounds good for finger funk and more R&B and Latin type stuff.
Sorry if I'm being a nuisance.

 

[Smallequestrian]

As for the bad caps, IBM had it happen to them on a large scale around 2002 and they went into the field to proactively replace the problem boards. I'm assuming Dell was also proactive? Mesa did the same thing when they've had problems that didn't even cause actual amp failure.

Actually Dell wasn't very proactive about it. Problems started in 2004 but It wasn't really until last October that they officially acknowledged the problem. Some people ended up sending there motherboard in over 3 times before getting a permanent fix.

 

[Iridescentone]

Syntax error?

As good as KJung's 3-way review is, I think a more appropriate evaluation might have been....

"of the three, I feel that the TF has the 'highest' build quality".

In this way, none of the three contestants would be depicted as having "low" build quality. Surely all three amps are among the finest available today.

 

[Akami]

Syntax error?

As good as KJung's 3-way review is, I think a more appropriate evaluation might have been....

"of the three, I feel that the TF has the 'highest' build quality".

In this way, none of the three contestants would be depicted as having "low" build quality. Surely all three amps are among the finest available today.

Yeah, more appropriate since he should have forseen that his high level of courtesy on the forums would not protect him from having people read his non-inflammatory post and pull the worst meaning they could from it.

I've re-read that post several times now and can only come to the conclusion that the person with a chip on their shoulder is not named Ken.

 

[jmain]

I guess what I'm trying to find out is if the AI with the Aggie 112 sounds good for finger funk and more R&B and Latin type stuff.
Sorry if I'm being a nuisance.

Sorry for being obtuse earlier.

I think that combo would give you a good, warm tone for funk, R&B and Latin-type stuff. IMHO, having an onboard pre would give you more tonal variety; however, for the stuff you listed I think you would be good to go. Of course, you can always add a pedal type preamp to the Fx loop or into the signal chain if you prefer a passive instrument.

Hope this helps.

 

[Keskin]

The baseball switches on my 30 years old Alembic F-2B are the original ones and still fine